Author Topic: Aircraft specs.  (Read 9674 times)

Offline EHM-0654 Murray

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Aircraft specs.
« on: April 17, 2004, 10:20:00 am »
Not sure if this comes under technical discussions or Ask EuroHarmony, but I'll ask here as the forum subject mentions the fleet :D

Any chance of getting climb and descent rates (and fuel flow figures for those) for the entire fleet, so I can bang them into FSNavigator (unless someone already has done this)?

Will share the results once I finish.
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EHM-1077 Emanuele

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Aircraft specs.
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2004, 02:25:24 pm »
It's something that I've always sought
but never really had the determination
to complete. I'll be glad if somebody
takes care of it.

Maybe we could come up with a batteries
of tests to run on the various aircraft and
slowly collect the info.

This brings up two questions:
1) What data do we need to collect?
2) In what conditions that data need
to be collected?

The second question is slightly easier
to answer: whatever the data is, it
should be collected all the other conditions
being the same.

I.e. if we are collecting the climbing rate
of a plane and its fuel consumption in
such phase, we should make sure that:
- the plane is flying straight and it's in a
  stable climb, with absolutely -no wind-.
- we don't include the transitions in the
   measurement (i.e. if we set the AP to
   climb from 2000ft to 8000ft, we should
   only take note of the fuel in the tank
   at 4000ft and 6000ft.
- The -thrust- setting should be kept at
   80%, while the speed is allowed to
  settle accordingly (and according to the
   climbing rate).
- Climb rate 1000 or 1500fpm (depending
  if the plane can sustain it)
- The pressure should be set the same
   during all tests: 29.92/1013
- The units should be all the same (lbs/hr).
- The airplane configuration file should be
   EHM's original, otherwise we are gonna
   get different results all the time.
- Before you make the test, refill (in-flight)
  the tanks so that it's at 100%.

Back to the first question:
The data for FSNavigator is definitely a
good start. climb/descent rate, speed,
fuel consumption for each phase.
Is there any other program out there
that need similar but not exactly the
same kind of data?

How to actually get the the data: AFSD
is a nice free application to get all sorts
of in-flight instantaneous statistics.
You can find it on avsim.com. If you have
any other method, share it! =)

Preliminary Specifications for the descent
and cruise tests:

Descent:
-Same as above, with 20% thrust and
1000fpm descent rate.
-Everything else inverted: start descent
at 8000ft, check fuel at 6000ft, check
fuel again at 4000ft, let the descent
continue unaltered until 2000ft.
- Before you start the descent, tweak
  the fuel tank so that it's only 20% full.

Cruise:
- again, thrust at 80%
- test to be executed in level flight
  with no wind, stable speed, at the
  following altitudes:
- FL100 for VFA planes
- FL240 for C1-C3 planes
- FL320 for C4-C6 planes
- FL360 for C7 planes
- refill to 50% before the test begin
- when you decide to begin the test,
   take note of the time and fuel.
- The test ends 5 minutes later,
   when the fuel is measured again
   and the final calbulation is made
   (fuelEnd - fuelStart x 6 = lbs/hr)

When we are done,  let's post the
results here, where Murray will collect it.

If more than one pilot make a test for
the same plane, no worries! The results
should be the same, if not, we'll make
an average or we'll investigate why
there's a discrepancy...

Furthermore, if you notice that a plane
for whatever reason can't do the test
as I proposed, please report it here, maybe
with a proposal of what should be different
for that plane.

Ok, I guess that's enough for this post...

Ciao ciao!

Manu

EHM-1077 Emanuele

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Aircraft specs.
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2004, 03:39:11 pm »
Ok, I just did a test flight to find out if
what I proposed is actually feasible.

I took the VFA Cessna 172 and of course
I found out I had to change a few things
because of its limited power, but it all
took less than an hour, including t/o and
landing for the pleasure of doing them.

Here is what I found:
-----------------------------
VFA Cessna 172

Climb: 3000->5000 feet
Thrust: 80%
Rate: 480 fpm (AP: 700 fpm)
Speed: 63.7 KIAS
Fuel: 45.2 lbs/hr

Cruise: 6000 ft x 5min
Thrust: 80%
Speed: 90.2 KIAS
Fuel: 39.0 lbs/hr

Descent: 5000->3000 feet
Thrust: 20%
Rate: -650 fpm (AP: -700 fpm)
Speed: 83.1 KIAS
Fuel: 9.2 lbs/hr
-----------------------------

It would be nice if anybody who wish
to help can provides a similar report,
sticking to the test altitudes of the
earlier post, and using the default
climb/descent rate of plane.

Ciao ciao!

Test Pilot Manu

EHM-1077 Emanuele

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Aircraft specs.
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2004, 06:33:04 pm »
Just thought of something:
to avoid more than one person testing
the performance of the same plane
put a "placeholder" message like this one
with the plane you intend to test:

----------------------------------------
Main Division - Dornier 228-100

Coming soon...
----------------------------------------

Eventually I'll get back to this msg
and I'll edit it to include the stats.

(a few hours later)

And here we go!

----------------------------------------
Main Division - Dornier 228-100

Climb: 6000->22000 feet
Thrust: 80%
Rate: 1770 fpm
Speed: 156 KIAS
Fuel: 840 lbs/hr

Cruise: 25000ft x 5min
Thrust: 80%
Speed: 189 KIAS
Fuel: 720 lbs/hr

Descent: 20000->4000 feet
Thrust: 30%
Rate: -1200 fpm
Speed: 168 KIAS
Fuel: 207 lbs/hr
----------------------------------------
Notes: values for climbs/descent
are averages between start and
end, except the thrust which is
kept fixed.
----------------------------------------


Manu

Offline EHM-0654 Murray

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« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2004, 09:14:42 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by manu3d
...if we are collecting the climbing rate
of a plane and its fuel consumption in
such phase, we should make sure that:
- the plane is flying straight and it's in a
  stable climb, with absolutely -no wind-.
- we don't include the transitions in the
   measurement (i.e. if we set the AP to
   climb from 2000ft to 8000ft, we should
   only take note of the fuel in the tank
   at 4000ft and 6000ft.
- The -thrust- setting should be kept at
   80%, while the speed is allowed to
  settle accordingly (and according to the
   climbing rate).
- Climb rate 1000 or 1500fpm (depending
  if the plane can sustain it)
- The pressure should be set the same
   during all tests: 29.92/1013
- The units should be all the same (lbs/hr).
- The airplane configuration file should be
   EHM's original, otherwise we are gonna
   get different results all the time.
- Before you make the test, refill (in-flight)
  the tanks so that it's at 100%.


Air temp? That could make a *huge* difference to the results. I take it you just hit the clear weather button in FS.

Quote
Originally posted by manu3d
Just thought of something:
to avoid more than one person testing
the performance of the same plane
put a "placeholder" message like this one
with the plane you intend to test:

<snip>

Eventually I'll get back to this msg
and I'll edit it to include the stats.

Manu

Manu, thanks for all the advice. Duly noted and in that case:

----------------------------------------
Main Division - Antonov AN-140

Stats coming soon!
----------------------------------------

:D
Murray Crane // EHM-0654 // Twitter
VA Management

KEEP CALM AND CARRY ON

EHM-1077 Emanuele

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Aircraft specs.
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2004, 12:41:00 am »
Yep, just hit the Clear Weather option
and remember to toggle off the Real
Weather download... :P

I didn't think about the air temperature
though... does it make any difference in
FS? I know it does in real life, but in FS?

Ciao ciao!

Manu

EHM-0641 Rico

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Aircraft specs.
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2004, 02:41:37 am »
This Link might be VERY helpfull in youor ongoing tests   ;)


Aviation Converters and Calculators

EHM-1077 Emanuele

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Aircraft specs.
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2004, 10:30:18 pm »
-----------------------------
Main Division - ATR 42

Climb: 8000->15000 feet
Thrust: 75%
Rate: 1950fpm (AP: 2000 fpm)
Speed: 207 KIAS
Fuel: 1900 lbs/hr

Cruise: 18000 ft x 5min
Thrust: 72% (AutoThrottle on CRZ)
Speed: 223 KIAS
Fuel: 1480 lbs/hr

Descent: 15000->8000 feet
Thrust: 20%
Rate: -1200 fpm (AP: -1200 fpm)
Speed: 210 KIAS
Fuel: 350 lbs/hr
-----------------------------


Manu

EHM-1077 Emanuele

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Aircraft specs.
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2004, 03:20:38 pm »
Speaking of dedication (awards) and
how to help the airline: the activity
of collecting reliable statistics about
our fleet and its performance is a
useful and enjoyable task. I'm surprised
nobody has seized this opportunity to
stand out of the crowd helping with
this particular issue.  :{

Ciao ciao!

Manu

EHM-1077 Emanuele

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Aircraft specs.
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2004, 03:37:17 pm »
-----------------------------
Main Division - Class 2 - Dornier 328-120

Climb: 10000->20000 feet
Thrust: 80%
Rate: 2000 fpm
Speed: 215 KIAS
Fuel: 1650 lbs/hr

Cruise: 25000ft x 5min
Thrust: 80%
Speed: 227 KIAS
Fuel: 1423 lbs/hr

Descent: 20000->10000 feet
Thrust: 50%
Rate: -1200 fpm
Speed: 233 KIAS
Fuel: 910  lbs/hr
----------------------------------------

 

anything