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Orient Express discussion Forum
EHM-1442 Luis:
Hi...here we go again....
My scenery to LFPO don't have rwy24 (fs2004 default) so I inform that and ask if it is possible to take off on rwy25 in my scenery.
Answer from LPFO_TWR - 'Your FP is not correct'
I open my FP and didn't see anything wrong and ask for help from the controller.......And the answer come at once 'Go read the IVAO documentation'....Thank you for your help.
I need some help from the ATC experts here on EHM to clarify this.
Where is my FP wrong?......Maybe I don't have the sids fixes?
And if it this the reason...was it so hard to inform me?
Is it not a presumption that the controller is there to guide and help the pilot?....Or the controller is there to fight against the pilot?
Please help me with my flight plan.......I have almost 2000 hours on IVAO.....maybe at this moment I'm blind or stupid, because I don't see that big mistake on my FP that justify that 'nice' answer from the controller.
For now, for me, fly on Ivao over France is out off question
Thanks
EHM-1883 Matt:
Usually the controllers are very picky when it comes to the total EET and stuff like that, but I would've cleared that flightplan (everyone probably thinks I'm the worst controller now!)
I don't understand why he said read the documents even if there is a mistake in there, I mean that FP is detailed enough and there's no serious problems with it.
Don't blame the controller too much. I mean, we could get this from any division. I've had a few controllers tell me off when I know I'm correct. One made a major mistake of getting the even and odds mixed up with East and West (that was at Schipol which usually the service is excellent)
What I'm saying is don't judge the entire IVAO french division because one controller made a bad mistake (just for the record;D what rating was he?)
EHM-1442 Luis:
Hi Matt
The Controller is a C1, as you can see on the last screenshot.
If he was a S1,S2 or even a S3...no problem.......but a C1, must be more responsible and with that kind of answer, I can be always making the same mistake over and over again....until I finds him again.
I think it was more usefull if he says 'correct your ETA' or put a remark like 'RMK Captain' or ' you don't have a sid fix' or wathever....
I think the answer for this are 2 single words I have in the FP Remarks... ' Only text'............ehehehehehe
Just for the record.....some years ago I was on Marseille to start a flight...I asked 5 times for clearence.....no answer from the controller...no traffic on the area.
After waiting about 20 minutes, I decide to start engines and taxi to the rwy h/p, arriving there...come the answer from the controller....'who gave you clearence to start the flight?'......:o
'But i asked for it 5 times...'....'go back to the blocks where you were before taxi'...he says.
When I arrived on the blocks he asked me..'Are you on voice?'...'negative, on the moment I only can communicate by text'...I answered......
After some minutes arguing about text, voice and ivao rules and documentation he finally said to me ' I don't refuse to controll by text, but I have no interest on it, so you are cleared as filed' :%
Now this Monsieur is a ivao supervisor........!!!
When I see words like Elitism, Ivao, Vatsim, friendship and there is always someone to help you....blah...blah...I stop a little to think about some storys that had happened with me on ivao network.
On the other hand I made some friendships too, on the ivao network.
Cheers
EHM-2097 Andrei:
Hi Luis,
First, I agree with you that this is not the kins of help one should expect from an ATC - no matter his rank.
I think however that I know what has upset this guy so much: your route looks like a VFR route (and definitely not like a correct IFR route) while the flight rules are marked "IFR".
As TWR & APP myself, in this case I would of course assume the pilot has forgot to change the flight rules, while (I guess) your TWR preferred to assume you have a badly built route. Maybe he did not notice your aircraft type either :)
And of course, whatever he found wrong in your FP, he should point it out inthe first place.
I admit text comm can be very frustrating for ATC, especially in hight traffic; sometimes this can lead to somewhat lower priority in comm, but there is no reason for not being polite and cooperative.
When dealing with "text only" I try indeed to reduce comm amount to the minimum, but when dealing with small FP problems this means being more tolerant, not giving riddles to pilots (which may prove I am a worse ATC than you Matt :) ).
About the ATC mistake Matt encountered at Schipol, I would say this is not what matters. We all make mistakes (I do, anyway, both as ATC and pilot) and I think we should "friendly" correct one another - and accept being corrected. What is definitely bad (and sad) is running into someone eager to demonstrate you are dumber than he is.
Once I had a pilot with a FP route obviously wrong (in real world, according to the charts, he was to exit TMA from a fix that is entry-only). I offered him help to corrrect but he replied he thinks the route is OK as it came from one of the major route databases. I did not believe him, but rather then argue I let him fly according to his plan. The day after I discovered he was wright, the route database provides indeed an incorrect route.
[Edit] This is a typo, I meant he was "right" not one of the Wright brothers. I am not THAT old (and I challenge anyone to pretend he provided ATC service for the Wrights).
And I cannot end without more bad news. You think you had problems with this guy because he had a too high rank, but be assured beginners can be as dangerous (it takes experience to understand you may be wrong yourself, not only all the others).
Cheers
Andrei
EHM-0654 Murray:
Routing is very wide for such a long distance as Andrei says, a few more radio navigation points wouldn't overly hurt (I tend to use a RouteFinder routing since you're unlikely to ever get to in trouble for that...)
Your equipment list is missing a "W"
And lastly, your endurance is a little close to your duration for comfort.
:)
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