Author Topic: Question for school, and why don\'t fans go trough the sound barrier/  (Read 5164 times)

EHM-2173 Bastiaan

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Hey guys, I am making something for school, it is for my exams. Does anyone know how long one fan is from the jet engine of a modern aircraft/

I am trying to impress the teachers with my math and I'm going to calculate how many kilometres one fan travels á minute :P

EDIT. I estimated that a jet engine is, without its housing, 2 metres high. A little calculation said that one fan travelles around 282 km á minute. Then, why doesnt it give a load bang as it goes trough the sound barrier/

Offline EHM-1829 Trevor

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Question for school, and why don\'t fans go trough the sound barrier/
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2007, 07:53:47 pm »
Hi Bastiaan
 It is 122cm from the centre of the Spinner cone to the tip of the blade on a GE CF6_80C2 Engine
The blade is 75cm in length.
Hope this helps mate.

EHM-6861 Hunter

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Question for school, and why don\'t fans go trough the sound barrier/
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2007, 03:09:31 am »
I'm sorry, but what do you mean my a fan?

Offline EHM-2097 Andrei

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Question for school, and why don\'t fans go trough the sound barrier/
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2007, 07:04:35 am »
Quote
Originally posted by EHM-6861 Hunter
I'm sorry, but what do you mean my a fan?
Well, a jet engine fan is a guy who loves jet engines :]

Sorry to interfere in an otherwise serious discussion but I just could not restrain myself from this easy joke. Bastiaan, don't do the same for school ;D

Andrei
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Offline EHM-1749 Hector

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Question for school, and why don\'t fans go trough the sound barrier/
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2007, 01:47:59 am »
Bastiaan, the sound barrier is created by compression of the airmass in front of a body that is moving through it pushing the molecules. It reaches a moment when the molecules cannot separate at the same speed the moving body so they just explode.
The fan sucks air so it creates a vaccumm in front of the engine nacelle so instead of compressing the airmass it actually de-compresses it.
Anyhow, feel free to confirm this theory before discussing it in a classroom.
Regards,
Hector

Good pilots keep their number of landings equal to their number of takeoffs. Takeoffs are optional but landings are Mandatory.

EHM-2173 Bastiaan

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Question for school, and why don\'t fans go trough the sound barrier/
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2007, 06:28:04 am »
Thank you all, it is for a project I need to do for my finals. What do you think the subject would be :P]

I calculated how fast a fan, ;D, is travelling through the air with..and it's fast. Really fast...

Offline EHM-1001 Robert

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Question for school, and why don\'t fans go trough the sound barrier/
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2007, 05:27:37 pm »
Well,

we call FAN, not only the fanatics, but also the first set of spinning blades on the 2-way jet engines, this is the first black bladed wheel with thte nosecone of the engine what you see when you are in front of the engine. Fan is exactly a very very dense propeller, that is spinned by the jet engine behind it.

This fan produces an unbeliavable amount of thrust compared with the "regular" jet engine behind it. Therefore it is a key part of the engine: it produces the most thrust, it produces a slow flow around the engine which reduces its noise, and it saves the intake of the jet part from birds too.

I think designers does not make supersonic fans, because the blade shape would be too difficult, and maybe they would not get as many thrust from it as in subsonic speed. Also, the speed is increasing as you go farther on the blade edge. This means the airflow speed is not constant at each diameter, and it can be supersonic at outer diameters, but sub-sonic in smaller diameters. To make such a blade which have supersonic flow on its whole length requires a very rigid material which we no have currently. It is still amazing to see a GE90 engine with its 310 cm diameter fan !!! Incredible. Almost the size of the 737 fuselage.

And another small info. Do you know how much is the speed at the outer diameter of a car turbocharger wheel ??? It can exceed M3.0 !!! Now, if you see that small wheel, with its relatively fat blades, it is easy to imagine this spinner in 3 metres size ! An engine that could spin it would be a fueleater, and I think it would not produced much thrust...

The soundspeed is somewhere 1230 km/h... it depends on temperature and pressure of course. For example the RR Trent 900 engines of Airbus A380 have a nearly 3m diameter fan with 3500rpm fan speed, which is nearly 550 m/s = 2000 km/h = M1.6 at blade end.

Look at that size...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/07/Ge-747-N747GE-020918-03.jpg/800px-Ge-747-N747GE-020918-03.jpg

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EHM-2173 Bastiaan

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Question for school, and why don\'t fans go trough the sound barrier/
« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2007, 08:48:09 pm »
Ok, that is really helpfull.. I think I made a calculation error somewhere. I used pi to calculate the distance a fan travels if it goes around 1 time. Thanks for your help.

Offline EHM-1001 Robert

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Question for school, and why don\'t fans go trough the sound barrier/
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2007, 09:26:22 pm »
There is a very simple calculation for rotation speed, at a given diameter:

V = D x PI x N ... in SI, so...
V is Velocity
D is Diameter
N is the Number of rotation

Unit depends on variable units. Typically V[m/s], D[m], N [rpm]. To really get it in [m/s] you divide it by 60, and to get [km/h] you multiply it with 3.6 ;)

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EHM-2173 Bastiaan

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Question for school, and why don\'t fans go trough the sound barrier/
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2007, 09:45:23 pm »
I know, I used that formula. I calculated a theoratical fan going 25 to 45k rpm and a diameter of 2 metres. I ended up at the tip of the fan going around 17k km/h :D

Offline EHM-1001 Robert

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Question for school, and why don\'t fans go trough the sound barrier/
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2007, 10:57:56 pm »
Well, I just red on the net, that these modern 2-way engines do not spin so fast. The most inner shaft rotates probably with 9000 rpm only.

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Offline EHM-1651 Christian

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Question for school, and why don\'t fans go trough the sound barrier/
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2007, 06:53:52 pm »
The rotation speed of the N1 fan compared to the N2 speed will be different from the different producers of engines, Rolls Roys uses some sort of system to alow the N1 fan to have a slightly slower speed than the rest of the engine.

BTW: On a modern turbofan engine the N1 fan can produce as much as up to 2/3 of the thrust while the jet engine produceses the last third of thrust.
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