Bombardier Challenger 850, is it me or the a/c?

[EHM-0441 Stefan]

I think there should be some investigation of the Bombardier Challenger 850, I wont fly it again. Once again it just wont take off and skids right off the runway, it start turning left and right and are going all over the place.

I tried taking off from ESSA now and I get to like 180 knots and still the d**n plane just start going left or right and doing somekind of I dunno race car like drifting.

I had full flaps on worked har don keeping it steady checking so all of the AP funktions was off and no spoilers up and so on and it WONT take off in a normal way. There is no bad weather or heavy winds so there is no reason for the plane to do all this.

I might be inexperienced or stupid but I'm sure that aircraft have major issues. No wonder none fly the B devision. I was going to try doing that to get the numbers up and well these smaller fast jets are usualy a very nice experience. Ohboy was I wrong about this one.

I did fly from ESSA to BIRK and had no big problem then but even then I notieced the sliding on the runway at takeoff.

Am I missing something, someone please do some testing...
I found some pictures of C850's crashing in russia so maybe its a very bad aircraft and it has real issues..

[EHM-1001 Robert]

Dear Stefan !

Some points for your question:

1. FS is very bad (I think) when you want to handle an airplane on the ground above 100 kts ! If you rug the joystick you cannot keep it straight at so high speed.

2. Please check the download page ! The information there is not for joke. Those data match with real world data, and the flight dynamics of our aircraft are tuned according to these data. So:

Takeoff RWY Length - 5000...5500 ft
VRotate / Flaps - 150 kts / 20 deg

This description is not a complete handling book, but can give the pilot a rough estimation of the worst case. Runway length is given to MTOW weight. If your plane is not as heavy you can try a shorter runway.

3. Flaps cause drag. If you apply full flaps, the airplane cannot accelerate appropriately, and it cannot reach the optimal lift speed. If you still able to get airborn you will get so high AOA that the aircraft will not be able to climb/ accelerate and it will fall down - similar thing happened with the Concorde at Le Bourget.

Please consider these before write bad critics on the planes or the whole Division.

[EHM-0441 Stefan]

I've done some more testing, and I managed to get a 747 off that same runway 13 where I couldnt get the C850 to lift off from. I have recorded it too..

I dont mean to sound I dunno whiny and mean or what ever I sound like just so you know, you guys do a insane job at this, best VA I've seen by far so...!!



Here's a link, and youll find more videos there from me, done 3 now..

The one thing I think that can contribute to this issue might be if the aircraft was in mid flight the last time I flew and then I load it and start from a runway the plane might be set in such a way that it dont respond properly. Might be the trim, I'm not sure but I tried push 5 to center it... havent checked if thats how you do it yet, ye I'm abit lazy... anyway, I'm gonna continue investigating this abit because I cant see why this should be a problem. The aircraft is of a pretty common typ, common wingsetup and engines and all, I see nothing special therefor I figure it should lift off easy way before I hit 180 knots, the boeing 747 started to lift at 150 knots and that was with 66% fuel, where as the C850 had 20% or less.

I can sound abit harsch when I'm in a bad mood, just ignore that ;P

[EHM-1001 Robert]

Well, I would not consider the default aircraft in this test. Although the specs you showed at 747 close to the real thing.

I tried the same takeoff too. I succeeded as you can see. Accelerate from full thrust/parking brakes, flaps: 20, max weight, no wind, rotate at 150 kts as needed.







I saw on your 747 video that the wind was changing a lot. Maybe you should adjust weather settings, or take care of wind, I do not know, but the Challenger can takeoff from that runway.

p.s.: Mates, do not try it out at home without Lights as me !

[EHM-0441 Stefan]

I took off from 13 towards those houses and tree's and I couldnt, and it even failed at arlanda where the runway is twice as long. And yes I have managed to get off ground on both but on BIRK it was with like less marginal then I had with the 747 and when I crashed at arlanda I used up all of the 10000+ ft of runway and then it spins out of control, no other plane does that that I know of...

Its all these strange behaviors that gets to me, if it was just as simple as its too big for the runway or have tiny tiny wings so it has to fly superfast to even be able to fly at all... like the guy flying his F15 with only one wing and manage to land it! Landing at a speed at over 250 knts! (video on youtube)

And about the flaps, after the first crash I have tested with the normal about 20 degree flaps, full flaps, no flaps, parking break +throttle release like fighters do on carriers... I've tried it all by now. And I didnt have enough fuel to even leave iceland at all when I crashed so it wasnt much, the first time I only have about 15% and thats not much at all so that cant been the issue no matter where it was placed. Its a jet... just look at the big ones, they can almost go straight up... ofcourse not but they are very powerful ;P