EuroHarmony Community Forums
Archive => Online Flying => Old Forum => Main Forum => Topic started by: EHM-0654 Murray on January 04, 2006, 06:57:10 pm
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Hopefully you've read the event announcement (http://www.fly-euroharmony.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=2108&page=1#pid15993) before arriving here, but basically the January Online Flying Event will be a two-leg marathon on IVAO, going from what will be our new continental US hub Atlanta [KATL] to Gran Canaria [GCLP] (GCD 3,509.9nm GPS direct), then following a short rest, refuel and turn around we will continue on to Lisbon [LPPT] (GCD 721.7nm GPS direct).
I'll be building an event page soon, but in the mean time feal free to discuss this event here.
EDIT: And to avoid any confusion later, this is a NON ProPilot event. As with all the online events, all classes of pilots are welcome, and can fly any fleet or authorised payware aircraft that has sufficient range to complete the flight (a class 7 bird or the 767-300ER from class 6).
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Start of the discussion, the routes...
For KATL to GCLP RouteFinder spat this out (only "defaults" turned on)
KATL DAWGS2 SPA J14 CREWE J51 OTT J150 OOD J42 DAVYS J191 RBV J62 ACK C1142E WHALE N35A BANCS NATY GUNSO UN486 OMOKO T16 SNT UN975 ORTIS STAR GCLP
Which clocks in at 4,639.0nm
For GCLP-LPPT I got the following
GCLP SID SAMAR UN873 BAROK UZ4 NAKOS STAR LPPT
A mere 735.0nm
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Looks like it will be an intresting day. I will sure try and be there. Good opertunity to take my pmdg 747 out of the hanger and for a spin:8
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For the long haul, I am not in the right class yet :( Is that going to matter for the event?
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normally you can fly any online event regarding of your class
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I should be there, ages since i took a hop across the pond from the states to Europe...
Tough decision for me... PSS 777 or the PMDG 747, at least i got lots of time to think
Sorry murray for posting in the announcment earlier by accident :P i deleted it and moved it here;D
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Not a problem Jon, I never even noticed :)
Further point for discussion, a date (and more importantly time) for this event...
Can't be midweek for obvious reasons, and I'd prefer a Sunday event to a Saturday event (as the SO and I do our weekly shopping on a Saturday at 2000Z) - 22nd or 29th of January gives lots of flight planning time. Opinions?
As far as time goes, we're going to need to start early to have any chance of finishing at a reasonable time - how does 0930Z sound to everyone?
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Sounds great!
I can't do the 21st or the 22nd. But I should be able to do the 29th.
Just wondering, like in the real world, I saw a Canadian station on IVAO, in his 'ATIS' it said that SECAL was active, just wondering, is this possible to simulate on IVAO?
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Originally posted by Tim
Sounds great!
I can't do the 21st or the 22nd. But I should be able to do the 29th.
Just wondering, like in the real world, I saw a Canadian station on IVAO, in his 'ATIS' it said that SECAL was active, just wondering, is this possible to simulate on IVAO?
Oh and is there any chance I can use my 767? I don't really prefer either of the 747's available for the EHM (the PMDG I just don't have the time to learn, even though it would be a breeze, seeing I already know one Beoing system, and the Meljet 744 burns of 100% fuel in about 3 hours.)
I've worked out that I would have enought fuel for the biggest leg (126,814lbs).
Oh and what would the alt airports be for both legs?
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I will try my damdest to be there but I can't make any promises yet, the 29th would be good for me too.
Well, i have been playing with I-Fly's creation lately but with it not being in fleet colours I won't be taking that. (Unless anybody has any ideas)
So I guess I will be bringing over my trusty A340. (Again any ideas on a way of getting the PSS Panel to operate on our A340?????)
Cheers,
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29th it is... I probably have enough information to make a start on the event page now.
Phil, assuming the PSS isn't doing anything too clever with its panel, you can just copy over the panel.cfg to the fleet variant. Remember to back up the fleet panel.cfg first, of course...
Me, I'll be flying the EHB 777 with the panel tweeked out to work with my Project Magenta setup.
BTW, I flew the shorter leg last night in the EHM 738 for test purpose - little under two hours with the wind coming from the left at FL410 with an IAS of .780 Mach.
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Originally posted by JayKae
For the long haul, I am not in the right class yet :( Is that going to matter for the event?
Jay,
Sorry for the delay in replying directly - as per the edit in the first post really. :)
We try to make the online events inclusive; any class of pilot is welcome to take part in any class of aircraft that will make the range without sneeky in-flight refueling, so if you're Class 1 you'd be permitted to fly a Class 7 aircraft on the first leg (which you're not, but for the purpose of explanation)...
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Some preliminary fuel calculations would be nice as well nex tto the route suggestion;)
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"Lots!" and "Less!" respectively
;D
Well, for GCLP-LPPT, I loaded 75% (wing tanks) on the 737-800 and still had over twice reserve when I landed when I test flew it last night.
Any of you young'uns that know the Class 7 birds a little better than I do feel like chipping in?
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Well I can do the calculation (for a 747) myself then and will post it here. Anyone has an idea of the winds that are normal between fl310 and fl410 for the 1st leg?
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Again, not overly representative, but last night at FL410 I was getting 259/54 and 301/41, which would suggest a fair tail wind from KATL.
I'll do proper flight plans in FSNav/Project Magenta tonight and post the findings.
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I will take the 777-200 LR
Iain (1617) and i reckon there will be a nice stiff tailwind for the trip, so around 6 hours for flight time...Iain said it was something to do with earths rotation, I just agreed ;D
Tim, That will me no prob for the 767 ;D
Any dates ok for me, bu has to be a weekend
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Woah, that was just an educated guess from experience and something I heard somewhere. I haven't read it or nuffink.
But the winds aloft usally come from somewhere near the West.
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Totally OT, a question for all you PSS 777 pilots out there - how do I silence the NAV radios on it?
And regarding winds, I've had the 777 flying the first leg all evening (took off about 2000Z) and using the route I gave above, I've had an 80+ kt tail wind the whole way so far...
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I'm trying to get FSBuild, which would give proper fuel readouts for all your a/c.
On the day, check the winds out here...
http://cimss.ssec.wisc.edu/tropic/real-time/
(http://img312.imageshack.us/img312/8273/winds1tt.gif)
Tursty conversion table here...
http://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/Shores/7311/ktmph.html
If the scale dosn't work, you will have to find one. (For the winds)
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Originally posted by Murray Crane
KATL DAWGS2 SPA J14 CREWE J51 OTT J150 OOD J42 DAVYS J191 RBV J62 ACK C1142E WHALE N35A BANCS NATY GUNSO UN486 OMOKO T16 SNT UN975 ORTIS STAR GCLP
That route takes you over the Atlantic past Greenland, the UK, LPPT, and then GCLP.
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Sounds good, am free that weekend so will try and make it if posssible, Jim
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Hi Tim,
I will try to get a more direct route not passing by England but descending a little bit already to GCLP ...
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Originally posted by Tim
That route takes you over the Atlantic past Greenland, the UK, LPPT, and then GCLP.
And in my own defence, that was never intended as *the* route, merely an example from RouteFinder for planning purposes.
Having said that though, I'm going to guess that more southerly routes won't be any shorter (just arranging the patching of all the machines I look after at work because of MS releasing a patch for the WMF vulnerability... buggers...)
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So errr what about VATSIM, as I have said before my system does NOT like IvAp :( So will everyone be on IVAO ?
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Jay,
Best I can offer you at this juncture is either next month we'll fly on VATSIM (already planning this event BTW), or if it's a distance event you're after, we can hold Long Flight #2 on VATSIM (April time...)
The majority of our pilots fly on IVAO, and since the last few events we've done on VATSIM haven't had all that many participants...
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Great event, I'll try 100% to be there for the second leg, I'm pretty sure I can't make the whole trip. I'll be sure when I know the approximate times.
As for the charts for GCLP:
www.aena.es
Then you can put it in English, go to the AIS section on the left menu.
Then choose AIP Spain, you need an account, but theyre free and easy to make. Then go to "Aerodromes". Then choose GCLP from the list and they have all the charts.
This is also valid for all spanish airports.
Cheers!!
Alex;)
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nice link alex...
I will be there, but will not be present the whole flight:$
Need to revise and suff like that, and hopefully my football team are not playing ;D
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Just to point out, I will be making a couple of chart packs for the event page later today, so anyone without an AENA account can hold off if they want to...
EDIT: As promised and only a few hours late, I've added four chart download links to the event page (http://www.fly-euroharmony.com/site/events/OLD_fly-in.htm).
- Full - contains all the GCLP charts from AENA (for those that want realism)
- Reduced - The barest minimum charts for those in the full event; aerodrome, GMC, STAR, IAC(VORDME-ILS) and SID for "both" runways
- Destination - The barest minimum charts for those only doing the first leg; aerodrome, GMC, STAR and IAC(VORDME-ILS) for "both" runways
- Departure - The barest minimum charts for those only doing the second leg; aerodrome, GMC and SID for "both" runways
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Murray, I am proud of you.
Excelent quality on your fly-in. Keep it up.
(and yes, I want to say this in "public") ..
Regards,
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Thanks Bruno.
BTW, do you know a good, free source for charts for LPPT? At the moment, that's my only sticking block charts-wise.
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Hi,
I will send it to you via email. I have it on my computer at home ...
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Do we have an approximate time for connection/departure at GCLP?
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Oh ok, well that is alright Murray. I will just keep representing EHM on VATSIM then on my own ;D
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Originally posted by Alex
Do we have an approximate time for connection/departure at GCLP?
Not yet, but good thinking Alex. I'll see if I can set the 777 up to fly the start of the flight so I can get an ETE out of the FMC.
I can only speak for myself when I say once the first leg is finished I *WILL* be taking 45 minutes break.
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Well, I will fly a 747, and if we do not want to make some formation flight ;) there can be huge differences between arrival times, according to the plane type. I myself will do about an hour brake. It will be enough for unboarding and refill the plane.
See ya on the flyin.
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A good point, and well made. I'm guessing it'll be a toss-up between the 744 and the 763 as to which will be the "slower" across this sort of distance. I'll do a check on the 744 FMC as well for comparison with the 772.
Anyhow, regarding the 45 minutes value, I got that out of a Boeing Airport Planning document for the 777-200LR :)
EDIT: Just checked the fleet pages so I know for sure; at a range cruise of 0.80M, the 763 is the slowest, then the 744 and the 772 at 0.85M (that's correct for the 772 on the PM FMC for a cost index of 75, BTW) However, I can always use 0.80M on the 772 FMC to get the ETE for that speed ;D)
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NUDGE! Lisbon [LPPT] charts added to the event page.
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NUDGE! Atlanta [KATL] charts added to the event page.
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Hi folks,
I thought I will made some research on the route planning. I realized there are not any routes from Atlanta to Gran Canaria...you have to make some direct jumps on the beginning. I made a flightplan with FSNAV, through Bermuda island. The trip became 3800 nm with SID and STAR. This distance takes 07:50 at M0.85 and 08:20 at M0.80 So, if we define a common flightplan we can arrive within about half hour distance. This means about 18:00 GMT arrival time to Gran Canaria, and probably 18:30...19:00 GMT departure time for the second leg.
;)
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Ok, I'm now the proud owner of the PSS 777 so I will be spending the next 2 weeks in the Simulator trying to get up to speed.
I know Robert has said he will try and get the repaint done for us in time (Thanks very much Robert, I know I will appreciate it) but what version should we choose from the IVAO MTL for our flight? I suppose the standard Boeing Commercial Aircraft version would be closest to our livery. What do you other 777 pilots think?
Cheers,
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Robert, that's a little weird.
I let FSN auto-calc a route last night (funnily enough, while I was letting FS fly the RouteFinder route), and it was 4600nm with the same Bermuda/Azores trans-Atlantic hop.
Without real-world weather on the RF route takes around 9 hrs, but I will be running it again over the weekend with ASV weather and I suspect the Jetstream will be a big help.
I also have a nasty feeling that going that far south will see you in the Easterly jetstream. Much like Iain, I have no documentary proof of this, but I remember the Corriolis Effect means that the jetstreams in the Northern hemisphere run to the East in the Northern North Atlantic and to the West in the Southern North Atlantic...
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Hi,
Well, I suggest you start suggesting flight plans because we will need to choose one.
Murray will look at them and select one.
About the PSS 777 I am using it for the last 8/10 flights and the airplane is absolutely awsome. I suggest you do some tests around an airport to see how it behaves. Also, there is a new flight dynamics pack developped from a guy that will place the airplane more realistic.
The link for it is : http://rapidshare.de/files/10384404/PSS_777_FDE_v1.0.zip.html (then click the "FREE" button).
Regards,
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Thanks for the link Bruno, I will take a look at it now.
She was only delilvered at Boeing Field yesterday so I ran through the tutorial flight from the PSS website last night (instead of reading the manual cover to cover)
Everything was great until I came to establishing on the GS. For some reason, the aircraft didn't lock the glideslope so I ended up going around and trying again, still no joy. It established on the localizer and followed correct heading, but it just did not decend. Is there a seperate switch for the second Autopilot like on the Airbus series for performing CAT I or CAT II landings? I can't see that I missed anything, maybe I just put something wrong in the FMC. (Or maybe its the Nasty Flat Battery problem that plagues the PSS Airbuses) Anyway, once the Lisboa-Dakar event is put to bed, I will spend the next 2 weeks flying curcuits and short hops in the Trip 7 to get used to her.
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Hmm... Well Phil, looking at the panel manual (as I have yet to land the 777) all you need to do is engage the APP button and the panel logic takes care of the rest (capturing LOC and GS, turning on the three A/P units for AUTOLAND...)
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Hmmm That's what I thought, it must be the Battery Bug as I have seen in the forums that it is causing strange problems.
Thanks for your help Murray, I'm off to register my copy FSUIPC and get rid of this problem once and for all!
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Hi,
Philip, you are saying that you see the glidescope needle and the airplane dont lock on it or you even dont see the glidescope needle ?
Because I have a problem like that too. It also doesnt lock on VOR's ...
I got a way to go around that but first confirm my question.
Regards,
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Yes that's the problem, I see the needles and get a heading lock, (Horizontal lock or LNAV) just no Glide Slope lock. (Vertical or VNAV)
I have just read on the PSS forum about a possible cure for this by reducing the Realism settings to 50% or less. I will try this when I get home tonight on a short flight to see if it works. Is that the cure you had in mind Bruno?
Cheers
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Well, when I let FSNav autocalculate the route it just followed the available routes, so went high north along the coastline, then sharply down to Bermuda and it seemed too long. I redrawn it to a more linear form and I got the distance above. But as Bruno said, I let Murray choose the correct route plan ;)
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Hi,
Philip, I noticed that this doesnt happen for the first time that you fly the airplane (after you install it).
After some investigations, I got a way to know if you will have that problem or not. Basically you:
1. Connect the ground power on the setup panel.
2. Turn on the battery, then the PRI GND POWER.
Now, here comes the trick. After this you will get power on the airplane, so, you turn on the beacon lights and yougo to the spot plane view and check if the beacon lights are on. If you don't see the beacon lights (the red upper and bellow-wing flash lights) on, then you will have problems on the airplane.
So, what I do in that case is to uninstall and install the airplane again. That solves the problem.
Well, this is only a desperate turn-around because I didnt find another solution and it's very bad to see that you do a very long flight and at the end you dont have approach/landing navigation aids ...
Hope that helps,
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I'm going to concur with Bruno regarding the battery, even though I do have paid FSUIPC and battery protection - ensure you're running off either ground power and air or APU air and power for pre-flight...
I've been working from the KBFI-KLAX tutorial PDF and it covers getting onto APU from cold and dark quite well.
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Hi Bruno / Murray,
I have hijacked this thread with this problem, and I appologize for this. I am going to continue it in the PSS 777 Thread in the Flight Simulator group as I have an update link here:
http://www.fly-euroharmony.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=1895&page=1#pid16329
Again, thanks for your help.
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Well after all that, with Roberts little presents to us today, (The new repaints of the PSS A330 & 777) I think the 777 is going to be left in the hangar for this flight, I'm taking the PSS A330 on this run instead. She looks absolutely fantastic!
(The 777 is also a great repaint, but I just think she is a bit of an ugly beast in the real world! The A330 with the Winglets and that long sleek body just look so much better! Oh yeah and the A330 is in the IVAO MTL as well ;) )
Better get myself back in the sim for a refresher on the A330, it's been a few months. See you in Atlanta!
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I will use the PSS 777.
I am flying it for the last weeks and it is an excelent airplane.
The FMC is more simple than on the PMDG 73x NG because some things there are automated.
Also, 90% of the flight functions are automated. The airplane really is a piece of work, and lefts all the fun for the take off and for the landing.
Regards,
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For those who wants to do a ProPilot class 7 flight, we had inserted flights from the hubs to Atlanta on Main and EuroBusiness Divisions.
So, the flights will be :
Hub -> Atlanta
Atlanta -> GCLP
GCLP -> Lisbon
Also, you need to move the airplane and lock the airplane immediately. So, I suggest you do your flight to atlanta after 26th January, so you can lock your airplane for 29th.
I also subscribe Murray's words of saying that this is not a ProPilot event. You can use ProPilot if you want (and can) but this is a normal event followin the online flying fly-in rules.
Regards,
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Any News on a final route yet? I would like to try it out in the A330 before the day if possible, so I am going to start off just trying the auto gen one from FSnav as the Routefinder route is a little tight for the A330. (Visions of doing the famous Air Transat 30 minute A330 Glide!)
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You should prepare your plane much braver than those Transat pilots ;) I am sure you do not want to lose that plane :)
Well, I can advise a route here if noone has an idea ;)
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Go ahead Robert.
Every plan is suitable of being the approved one.
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Well,
I have figured out this one with FSNAV. If you are satisfied with it, I can attach the PLN, or FSN file too.
KATL
- EATWO SID
- direct to MADDI (16 nm jump to nearest airway)
- via V18 to IRQ (113,90)
- via V56 to FLO (115,20)
- via V139 (or J4) to ILM (117,00)
- direct to BACUS (199 nm jump from the coast)
- via R512 to BDA (113,90)
- direct to APASO (2400 nm jump over open ocean)
- direct to PLATY (102 nm jump to a parallel airway)
- PLATY STAR
GCLP
total: 3750 nm / 07:50 ... 08:40 hours
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Cool, It's better than the one I did. (3810nm - 8hr 28m at M.82) Also mine was a lot more complicated going up over New York & Boston and then out over the Azores and down to Grand Canaria.
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Well, in that case, if Murray also agrees, we can move with that one and post it on the Online Flying Page.
Regards,
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Or how about as found via http://rfinder.asalink.net/free which takes all real world restrictions into account. With the latest Airac cycle loaded FSnav should be able to plot this route as well.
RouteFinder
Route generator for PC flight simulation use - NOT FOR REAL WORLD NAVIGATION
(C)2005 ASA srl - Italy
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Computed route from HARTSFIELD JACKSON ATLANTA INTK7 (KATL, K7) to GRAN CANARIA (GCLP, GC): 28 fixes, 5011.6 nautical miles
Cruise altitude between FL330 and FL410
KATL (0.0nm) -DCT-> JA (233.0nm) -AR5-> JAWSS (285.4nm) -AR5->
BAHAA (378.2nm) -AR5-> TORRY (385.0nm) -AR5-> SNABS (402.8nm) -AR5->
OZENA (411.7nm) -AR5-> OHLAA (424.6nm) -AR5-> CARPS (442.7nm) -A700->
JAINS (511.4nm) -L375-> DRIBL (731.1nm) -L435-> NUTRE (976.1nm) -L435->
ARUVO (1184.1nm) -L435-> FIVZE (1487.8nm) -L435-> BUTUX (2405.3nm) -UL435->
PAKER (2753.7nm) -UL435-> IRELA (2922.9nm) -UL435-> POKSI (3143.1nm) -UL435->
DIGUN (3364.2nm) -UL435-> BUXON (3481.9nm) -UN866-> NELTO (3572.4nm) -UN866->
AMDOL (3887.8nm) -UN866-> IREDO (4122.1nm) -UR976-> CVS (4219.5nm) -UN873->
IPERA (4472.2nm) -UN873-> ISOKA (4592.5nm) -UN873-> LIMAL (4798.4nm) -STAR->
GCLP (5011.6nm)
Details:
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ID FREQ TRK DIST Coords Name/Remarks
KATL 0 0 N33°38'25.60" W084°25'37.00" HARTSFIELD JACKSON ATLANTA INTK7
JA 344 146 233 N30°27'41.99" W081°47'59.44" DINNS
JAWSS 94 52 N30°26'49.58" W080°47'18.15" JAWSS
BAHAA 95 93 N30°25'22.80" W078°59'40.77" BAHAA
TORRY 96 7 N30°25'20.00" W078°51'49.50" TORRY
SNABS 96 18 N30°25'13.31" W078°31'13.29" SNABS
OZENA 96 9 N30°25'09.99" W078°20'54.20" OZENA
OHLAA 97 13 N30°24'52.75" W078°05'53.77" OHLAA
CARPS 97 18 N30°24'28.80" W077°45'00.60" CARPS
JAINS 41 69 N31°21'20.10" W077°00'00.10" JAINS
DRIBL 113 220 N30°18'27.13" W072°55'01.53" DRIBL (GTK 360/395)
NUTRE 121 245 N28°47'12.90" W068°33'54.20" NUTRE
ARUVO 126 208 N27°20'00.00" W065°00'00.00" ARUVO
FIVZE 130 304 N25°00'00.00" W060°00'00.00" FIVZE
BUTUX 130 918 N18°00'00.00" W045°22'48.00" BUTUX
PAKER 135 348 N15°20'00.00" W040°00'00.00" PAKER
IRELA 136 169 N14°00'00.00" W037°26'00.00" IRELA (RVSM)
POKSI 144 220 N11°51'03.86" W034°23'02.03" POKSI (RVSM)
DIGUN 144 221 N09°39'39.00" W031°22'14.00" DIGUN (RVSM)
BUXON 145 118 N08°29'02.42" W029°46'58.71" BUXON (RVSM)
NELTO 47 90 N09°47'42.00" W029°01'54.00" NELTO
AMDOL 47 315 N14°21'12.00" W026°21'30.00" AMDOL
IREDO 45 234 N17°43'06.00" W024°18'12.00" IREDO
CVS 115.3 141 97 N16°44'12.37" W022°57'03.78" SAL
IPERA 43 253 N20°21'54.00" W020°42'00.00" IPERA
ISOKA 42 120 N22°04'52.90" W019°35'24.06" ISOKA
LIMAL 42 206 N25°00'00.00" W017°37'32.09" LIMAL (RVSM)
GCLP 43 213 N27°55'54.79" W015°23'11.71" GRAN CANARIA
Tracks are magnetic, distances are in nautical miles.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
KATL DCT JA AR5 CARPS A700 JAINS L375 DRIBL L435 BUTUX UL435 BUXON UN866 IREDO UR976 CVS UN873 LIMAL STAR GCLP
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RAD/CDR restriction analysis:
Route segment Rest. type Details Exclude?
No restrictions found.
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Hi Cyriel,
I understand what you are saying but that puts over two and a half hours on to an already long flight.....
I guess what needs to be decided is just how long this flight should take.
With Roberts route the entire flying time to Lisbon would be about 11 hours, with the Routefinder Route it would be almost 14 hours. (And this is without refueling time included but it is not taking in to account the North Atlantic Jetstream which will probably knock about an hour off both flights.)
What does everyone think? I will fly either as I have told the wife not to disturb me for the entire day! ;)
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Well, the RF route I got was "only" 4700nm and that used NATY (Up to Canada then across to GUNSO) and I am loathed to suggest it as *the route* because it's so long.
The other problem with the going onto the official NATs is the spacing; half an hour between planes on the same NAT!
Cyriel, I applaud your abilities if you want to fly that route. I'm still mulling over whether to fly my route (apart from the turn after GUNSO it's pretty much straight)
I've yet to test it, but I think for the sanity of all involved, we're better of using Robert's self-built route. Anything that can chop an hour or two off of what is otherwise a 7/8 hrs leg must be welcomed. We've got the pilots that are joining us to LPPT to think of...
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Well, does anyone know which way the real-world planes would go...
when i flew from TNCM, (not too far away) i got a route which went over south america...and over the azores....
I think we should take the shortest route LOL:P
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Well I usually use the routefinder route and combine it with the Fsnav found route. I might take some minor shortcuts where possible but would like to fly a as real as possible route. I might take off about half an hour for the rest then and push the plane to the max ;D
Edit: Or only load it with half fuel and order a mid air tanker half way. That should speed up things as well.;)
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LOL I didn't know the new fleet was AAR capable! I know a few guys who fly K3's so I can arrange for a drink on the way ;)
Maybe we could talk Gergley in to refitting his personal Victor Charlie to this configuration:
http://www.studenten.net/customasp/axl/picture.asp?cat_id=8&ple_id=270&page=2&pte_id=9055
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Hi,
I suggest that we move to Robert's flight plan.
If we departure at 0930 we will be there about 1730/1800 ... So, that give us time to end the flight about ... 2200 in lisbon.
Looks like a good route. I already arranged my agenda so I can take off, then go to BTT, then come back and continue flying until landing at GCLP ;D
Also, we need to be on the clock here. No delays for the KATL departure.
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Rgr that.
I'm testing the route tonight, Having some trouble with the SID's & STARS not being in the database????? Will let you know tomorrow how it goes and how long it takes.
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Ok all.
I flew Roberts Route last night and Flying time was 7hrs 45 mins at a M.82 cruise. I personally think that is long enough for the first leg. The only things I would suggest would be:
1. Departure SID = MUNSN (Available on all runways)
2. Arrival STAR = LIMAL (RWY03L approach for full ILS CAT III approach)
See you all soon
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I think it best that as Bruno says we make Robert's route *the route* for this fly-in. If anyone wants to fly an alternate, longer route, they are most welcome to; factor for Robert's route taking 6 hrs and do your best to arrive at around 1600Z (which should be about the time the first of us flying the shorter route should arrive).
EDIT: I've spent some of the evening building flight plans in FSN. [ This RAR archive (http://www.fly-euroharmony.com/downloads/plans/plans.rar) ] contains FSN and Flight Sim plans for both 09L and 27R for what is pretty much Roberts route (I've made a "company NAT" for the Trans-Atlantic bit) using MUNSN2.IRQ SIDs and up to LPC on the STAR, and GCLP-LPPT (no SID or STAR, but the terminating ISECs are included).
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Great route Murray ;) I have 3 more question regarding the event and technical :
1. Where can you download SID/STAR for FSNAV ?
2. Shall we ask some ATC presence to that day for the 3 desired airports/region ?
3. I checked the SIDs for Gran Canaria, and those are absolutely crazy ! Making 18 or 26 nm radius circles around a fix ??? So, which will be the 2nd leg route ?
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Dont ask for ATC ENROUTE! Please, I will need to go out during the long haul flight and let my "co-pilot" the work...
However get all the ATC possible for KATL, Gran Canaria and LPPT!
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Looking great guys....familly commitment etc mean i wont join for the long haul but will hopefully meet you all at Grand Canaria and fly with you all to Lisbon.....see yall, Jim
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I might be on hand to do ATC - I can do any position with a C1 or below rating. (Even oceanic).
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Just something on my mind...
I have read two post about people leaving to do their co-pilots all the work. I don't think idea of online flying is to not be in your cockpit for extened periods of time unless you disconnect.
also refer to http://forum.ivao.aero/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11795
short summary. There is no poitn flying online if you are not there. I tend to agree with the point of view but that is just my humble opinion.
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Yeah, I agree Cyriel. I personally disconnect if I am leaving the keyboard for any reason, even for a restroom break!
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As if to prove that there's no ill will against you Cyriel, I'm going to agree with you on this matter. If you need to be away from the cockpit for more than an hour, disconnect from IVAO and reconnect when you get back (as per the suggestion from the IVAO staffers on that thread).
But (you saw that coming, admit it) I'm going to put in a proviso... I'm not entirely sure of the numbers that are going to be taking part in the long haul leg, but it looks to be a good 5 or 6 at the minute. As long as "out of cockpit" time is kept to a minimum (under an hour), and when those that do leave mark their FPs appropriately ("away - XXYYZ to XXYY+1Z; reason"), and as long as most of us are still there and know who is away and for how long, I personally don't think the IVAO staffers will be too upset.
Now I have my IVAO forum login again, I'm going to post an event notification that makes it clear that for the T-A section chances are we'll all take breaks at some point to let "the co-pilot have a go".
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Originally posted by SirRoberto
Great route Murray ;) I have 3 more question regarding the event and technical :
1. Where can you download SID/STAR for FSNAV ?
2. Shall we ask some ATC presence to that day for the 3 desired airports/region ?
3. I checked the SIDs for Gran Canaria, and those are absolutely crazy ! Making 18 or 26 nm radius circles around a fix ??? So, which will be the 2nd leg route ?
1. Options\SID-STAR Download (except there's no GCLP/KATL procedures... hence those plans I made having them hand-crafted)
2. I'll be putting in a request in the IVAO Events Forum, but if not there's no point worrying about it. Iains offered and could no doubt handle KATL-APP/DEP (FRAs allowing)
3. The best bet for the second leg is the route I posted (second or third post in the thread). GCLP-LPPT is actually pretty easy; 700nm almost due N.
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Wow ! Thanks Murray. :$ I am absolutely sorry, I joined this thread a little late and probably have not red the beginnings.
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OK, have we got an official route yet?
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Do keep up Tim ;D
Yes, for the long haul, Robert's route from "posted on 2006-1-18 at 22:27", using MUNSN2.IRQ as the SID and LIMAL2C as the STAR if you have the current charts posted on the event page. I've linked FSNav and FlightSim flight plans in a post above ("posted on 2006-1-20 at 18:27")
For the second leg, the route I came up with in "posted on 2006-1-4 at 19:54" (second post in the thread).
Once "Kiki's Delivery Service" finishes on Film4+1 I'll post standard format routes for both legs and a second RAR for the shorter leg (here and on the event page).
EDIT: OK, here we go:-
Leg 1 - Atlanta (KATL) to Gran Canaria (GCLP)
KATL MUNSN2 IRQ J4 ILM DCT BACUS R512 BDA DCT APASO DCT LIMAL LIMAL1C GCLP
Anyone using the FSN/FS9 route(s) I posted above will find a company NAT for the BDA DCT APASO section of the flight.
Leg 2 - Gran Canaria (GCLP) to Lisbon (LPPT)
GCLP SID SAMAR UN873 BAROK UZ4 NAKOS STAR LPPT
I've modified [ my RAR archive (http://www.fly-euroharmony.com/downloads/plans/plans.rar) ] to include a pair of GCLP-LPPT plans in addition to the two pairs of plans for leg one.
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Thanks Murray, That's excellent!
Will we be having a TS channel for the Flight? I get bored talking to myself as I am not very good company! ;)
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A TS Channel be easily organised Phil - you can and are allowed to make it yourself if you want.
I can do KATL APP/DEP, GCLP APP/DEP, LPPT APP/DEP
Can someone get a list of the FIRs (or better CTR zones) we fly through so I can check?
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<s>If you can wait until this evening, I'll draft a list tonight after work.</s>
OK, ATCC/FIR list for leg one:
- KZTL
- KZJX
- KZDC
- KZNY (oceanic)
- LPPO (oceanic)
- GCCC
And thinking out loud, can the first person off the ground at Atlanta please make sure they understand oceanic procedures (specifically, compulsory reporting every 10 degrees of latitude) before they reach Bermuda so those that've never flown oceanic get some idea of how it works. ;D
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Er... OK, will try to do that.
Will the ATC be doing SECAL over the Atlantic?
Oh, and is Longitude the | > | > | > |
And Latitude:
_
_
_
_
?
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I'd better make sure I'm not first then ;) I haven't got the foggiest, better start reading up again. :%
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http://www.ivaouk.net/eggx.asp
Murray, check your mail ;)
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Give me a chance mate, only just landed the Bravo and chucked out the passengers at Bryansk (Russia). And given the great ATC I just got I'd recommend a flight in Moscow airspace on a Monday evening... ;D
Yes, I believe that to be correct - latitude is great circles (perpedicular to the poles), longitude is the other (perpedicular to the equator)
And Phil, it's just position reporting every 10 degrees longitude (pos, alt, speed, next report and estimated arrival at next report) - hence my FSN/FS9 flightplans having fixes every 10 degrees across the mid-Atlantic. On the 777, the FMC will tell you all of that on the 'FMC COM\POS REPORT' page.
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Does anyone have have enroute charts fro the atlantic, so when I call my position, I can also look up were I am with the IRS.
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Originally posted by Murray Crane
EDIT: OK, here we go:-
Leg 1 - Atlanta (KATL) to Gran Canaria (GCLP)
KATL MUNSN2 IRQ J4 ILM DCT BACUS R512 BDA DCT APASO DCT LIMAL LIMAL1C GCLP
Anyone using the FSN/FS9 route(s) I posted above will find a company NAT for the BDA DCT APASO section of the flight.
Leg 2 - Gran Canaria (GCLP) to Lisbon (LPPT)
GCLP SID SAMAR UN873 BAROK UZ4 NAKOS STAR LPPT
Is this the same route that is on the FSNav and FS9 flight plans? Just making sure as I'm putting in the flightplans now so I don't waste five mins putting them in then.
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Yup, near enough. As I said, I made a company NAT with fixes for suitable reporting points between BDA and APASO just in case we end up with oceanic control, but otherwise, that's it.
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KZTL... Yes
KZJX... Yes
KZDC... No - C2
KZNY... No - C2
LPPO... Yes
GCCC... Yes
Some things are insane... with a C1 I can control EHAM_APP and even EHAA_CTR. But for some reason I cannot take some much less busy airspace in America! Oh well... I let US-DIV go figure that one ;D
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Minor update to the event page, I've "fixed" the KATL departure chart pack to be correct for the proscribed routing.
And finally, forgot to mention it earlier but the event has been on the IVAO forum for almost a week now, so we might get ATC from IVAO-US/IVAO-ES.
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Arggghhh! Im guttered!
I dont beleive it! F*****G(i'll let you fill in the blanks);D Badminton county squad practice has just cut my day right in half!
Its a 3hr session on Sunday of all days, from 14:30 - 17:30, so right in the scheduled landing time at GCLP...
How unlucky can you get!
Argggghhh!
Sorry, will be there for the second leg!:] Sometimes I hate my county squad, they pick the worst days ever!
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Hi,
About the "leaving the airplane for some hours" when we are on IVAO you are also absolutely right. I was suspended for 1 week because I got caught twice :$ ...
So, this time I delayed all my agenda so I can be here all the time. :) ...
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Razza,
Here's an idea - take-off a little early and floor it. The proscribed route doesn't need a full fuel load on a 777, so add some extra and push above 100 COST INDEX (if whatever plane you intend using's FMC will do CI's above 100, I know that the real ones go as high as 150 in some cases, but the PM FMC stops at 100)
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I was considering startin a little bit later and routing dct LPPT, that way I would arrive at LPPT near enought the same time as you guys!
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HELP....trying to lock one of the 737-800 for the second leg but when i click the tail ID of either of the 737s at Gran Canaria, there is no flight to lock for the aircraft.....
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Don't know for sure, but make sure you've updated your flight database before trying to lock the flight.
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Locking the flight and updating your database are not related as the database is offline on your oc and locking happens in the online database. I have the same problem with the 747 in KATL. The flight we are doing is not available. If it is not fixed I will not be using PP tomorow:{
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Hi,
It's loaded now, my mistake.
Don't forget to click the UPDATE button on the flight logger.
Regards,
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Gran Canaria and all island Mesh http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?DLID=46344&CatID=fs2004scen
Flightsim.com: gclp21ri.zip
Adds the new ILS runway 21R of Gran Canaria Airport (GCLP) which is operative as of October 30, 2003.
lower level at scenery CFG: Africa Landclass
http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?DLID=50244&CatID=fs2004scen
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En-route update from the long flight - I'm last in the queue coming in to GCLP (don't ask... problems with the PSS 777...) with an IVAE ETA of 1730Z and I'm currently in a patch of pretty dead air mid-Atlantic, so that may well change (there's another chunk of high tailwind air somewhere to the east of me and my GC should be back up above 550KTS real soon now. Chugging along at 444KTS GS ATM.)
I'm happy to be last off the ground from GCLP - ETD 1800Z
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Ok, I'm 680 nm from GCLP, just prepping for the last hour of flight, taking my last break before decent. GS 515kn at FL370. Tim Berry is 1.5 nm off my Port side, got some great close action screenshots. Check out the Screenshot page in the Company section of the main website! More will follow when I get to LPPT.
See you on deck!
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Hi,
I'm off. Just in 15 mins the GCLP CTR wasnt seeing us and I tried to connect again on IVAP. On the moment that I disconnected it the airspeed just went terrible fast (due to the changing weather that was ran from IVAP and then to ActiveSky) and the result was a tragically overstress on the aircraft.
I am very sad with all of this. After a 8h flight and when I was preparing for descend I got this. I also don't have moral strength to do the second leg.
So, good luck with you all and I will be here again for the second long flight and for the next fly in's.
Regards,
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Well, I am off too :( The ATC recognized me too late and did not give the descend clearance, also forced to change server...but when I did it IVAP simply disconnected because I tried to go online in the air. So, I am sad after 8 hours flying I could not reach the Canaries ground.
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Yes, real shame what happened with GCCC_CTR. I survived it all and have some "parked up in formation" shots to work through.
1800Z for departures as indicated previously I think; Had a quick bite to eat, done meself a hair cut, just about to have a shower, and I'll see if I can reinstall Robert's PSS repaint as well... Mwahahahaha!
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Did you guys have problems on arrival with ATC?:| I'm loading up FS, getting ready for the second leg of the event. No ATC though, at least at 1730Z
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The guy was really slow, I luckly got on the ground.
Great flyin, bring on leg 2!
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Well after a reboot and restart in mid air, I managed to land, GCCC_CTR was way too late with descents, I had to request all my descent levels and he didn't sound happy that I wanted to descend early. Maybe he is used to Eurofighters flying in and out of there. ;) Ah well, on the ground safe and sound, loading up for the next leg now.
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Leg 2 good and smooth, a good amount of EHM planes, bascially no problems on arrival, only a slow depature and a lack of ATC at Lisbon. Great flight! And good pics. (Razza's getting excited on TS seeing all those EHM planes;D;D;D )
Cheers!
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d**n i feel so Patriotic ;D
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Hey chief, we left almost all PP birds in Atlanta :) Would you join for a refly of this long flight next weekend ? ;D Well, we could use time acceleration over the Ocean ;)
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Hi Robert,
Unfortunately I will not be online next weekend. I need to go to my countryhouse do some farm work. But I am sure we will manage that because I got really dissapointed with the bad luck that I am having when I want to fly with you.
Since January/2005 that we have fly-in's and, for this or that excuses, I only finished once (the LOWI fly-in).
D#"mn I am really upset with this.
Regards,
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Don't worry Bruno, your spell of bad luck will soon move and rain on someone else. ;)
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Yep it was hard work at times, I was fighting a poor performing PC which finaly gave up on approach to GCLP, but thanks to autosave and FSNAV Slew, I managed to catch up. ATC at GCLP was slow, so disconnected and got up in the air and rejoined. Sorry, I know I should be patient, but after a long day, your patience runs thin! I thoroughly enjoyed it.
Don't worry about the planes in KATL, they will soon disapear once the Hub opens up!
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.. well, once the hub opens, much more airplanes will be loaded there ;)
Regards,
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Robert,
If you produce a list of what's at Atlanta and where it needs to be, I'll see if I can't offline one or two of them during the week (Boeings especially... ;D)
Everyone, thanks for making our first event of 2006 a great one. As I said to those of you at Lisbon last night, initial page will be up either later tonight (after I get home from work) or tommorrow. I need your stories and pictures emailed ASAP (unless they are in the Gallery, of course...)
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Well, finally (after 2 FS crashes) I managed to bring home a lady :) It was a bit boring alone and no ATC on the route. And that hill on final, growing from the left toward the glideslope was very annoying! And those tiny little taxiways, ahh. I think Las Palmas will not be my favourite airport ;D I might continue the tour tonite to Lisbon.