Why I don\'t fly online?

[EHM-0948 Bruno]

Hi mates,

We would like to know why our pilots don't fly online.
This is just to help us find ways to help you to try the wonderful world of online flying .

[EHM-1883 Matt]

I fly online all the time, but there is one thing that is not mentioned here I would like to mention:

I NEVER fly online if there are Air Traffic Controllers unless I'm in that sort of mood. This is because they seem to either control at airplanes where there are too many planes or not enough! If there's too many planes I'm scared of taking forever to get out of the airport, and if there are no planes I feel like it's a waste of time getting all the clearances when I can just fly offline with more traffic offline!

And to add to that, you never know what the air traffic controller is like! I've made some bad mistakes when I control and I know when they happen the controller is hitting his head against his desk, but it is annoying when mistakes are made, and don't get me started on the controllers with no patience!

Plus sometimes they give orders that don't make sense or are not physically possible!

[EHM-0948 Bruno]

Great comments Matt ... let's see more comments you guys .

[EHM-2272 Callum]

I want to but I guess im just scared and I dont really know how to.

I just fly offline with AI.

[EHM-1749 Hector]

I fly on-line all the time except when trying a new aircraft. Even when I have been flying a particular type of aircraft and switch to another, I normally make two or three flights off-line.

[EHM-2097 Andrei]

I *mostly* disagree with Matt...

Although I had some not-so-funny episodes with ATC on IVAO, the controlled airspace is what makes all the fun of flying online. Thus, if I plan to fly online and there is no ATC, I am rather disappointed.

However, this fun comes with a cost, online flying requires a lot more preparation, and this (time) is the main reason I didn't fly online much in the last 6 months.

Another reason would be that it requires a relatively long period of continuous presence in front of the PC, which is usually difficult to schedule in the evenings after work.

A final reason, in my case, is that while time is a rather scarce resource I preferred to spend my online time as ATC rather than a pilot (and this is also one reason for not supporting the "pilots good, ATC bad" theory ).

One more comment on the "waste of time getting all the clearances when I can just fly offline with more traffic offline!". I agree that such a situation looks boring, but this is the best way for people on both ends to learn the ropes. Especially as ATC, I could never learn to handle medium (not to say heavy) traffic if I had not the opportunity to handle low traffic first.

Andrei

[EHM-1671 Ben]

I would like to fly online but I had a bad experience with a particular impatient EGLL controller and as such I'm pretty reluctant to return to the online network, at least when there's ATC online. If I learn my ATC-talk well... I can definitely see myself going back in the future

As for the "waste of time getting all the clearances when I can just fly offline with more traffic offline!", I disagree... for me the experience is about my own flying and the overall authenticity of my personal experience, not how many planes there are.

[EHM-2101 Tarik]

None of the above opinions, since I've tried but I felt I must improve my flight skills more to be able to be good in online. Though I feel I'm quite good now, I could start again. But one problem, my headset got broken

Edit: Oh and btw, I think that the Air Traffic Controllers are the best thing about online flying. I have only seen nice and helpful ones

[EHM-1883 Matt]

Message original :  EHM-1671 Ben
As for the "waste of time getting all the clearances when I can just fly offline with more traffic offline!", I disagree... for me the experience is about my own flying and the overall authenticity of my personal experience, not how many planes there are.

What I meant was in my terms, I mainly fly online for the traffic, so if there isn't that much traffic sometimes I switch offline. Don't get me wrong though, I do fly online when there isn't much traffic because the FS ATC is much worse than real controllers!

[EHM-2288 Glenn]

I fly online on Vatsim all the time. But I think sometimes that the ATC-controllers are taking their job a little bit to serious. I got two examples on how I think it should be, and how I think it shouldn't be.

1. When I started to fly on Vatsim, I got a xxx_APP on my first airport. With no other planes online from or to this airport, he really tried to be boss. Told me to taxi here and there to get to the runway. And I didn't have charts, so I got confused. Instead of helping me, he disconnected me, because I didn't understand. That's too bad. One plane in his controlled airspace, and he didn't help a newbie.

2.After a while online, I found out that LPPT controllers are really nice. Every time(except when many pilots online) I land on LPPT, I get the message, "taxi to stand of own choice". This is great, and you can also ask the controllers in Portugal everything.

This shows how different controllers is. Some thing it's real life, other takes it as it should be, amateur pilots who play a game:)

But if somebody who haven't been online yet, want to try it, just contact me, and come with me on a trip on Vatsim. Now I'm a experienced Vatsim pilot, and I can help you finding out what to say, and how to communicate with ATC's and other pilots:)

EDIT: And I have not been flying offline in a couple of years. You will never get it like in real life, but online gives you the most realism, and the most social way to fly

[EHM-2097 Andrei]

I realize now I have been kind of harsh on my first post

In my defense, let's say that it never occured to me that it was an option to fly online for traffic, because in my "online existence" traffic seemed rather scarce. Also, it is even less predictable than ATC presence.

Which leaves only the ATC to have fun online with... or the opposite, depending on one's luck

The fact is that there is one major point on which the online community does not agree (yet?). How far the "as real as it gets" should go? Especially when obviously the best real life practice is not quite adequate for flight simming and vice versa.

One controller once explained to me, when I commented on some procedure: "I realize this is not a good way to do things, but this is the real life procedure and we are proud to replicate even the errors they do in real life".

Another fine example is a forum thread on IVAO where people could not agree whether the ATC should say things like "have a nice flight, good bye". It is polite, but non procedural...

Also, there are various reasons, both personal and produced by training, why some ATC are excessively bossy.

Personally I think the keyword here is "reasonable". In the online community, every one is supposed to have fun but should also do reasonable efforts to let the others have fun too. Some extra work, for some extra fun, to put it otherwwise.

Andrei

[EHM-1883 Matt]

I always so "Welcome to *wherever we are*" unless there are heaps of traffic.

There is no excuse to not be polite;D

[EHM-C8LE Kyrre]

I would like to try online, but after reading this site I`m not so sure.. Are yoy really not allowd to be a noobie and make some mistakes online?. I`ve already installed Ivao but havent tried it yet.. And what is the easiest for a beginner vatism or ivao?.. Anyway I have to improve my landing skills before going online, usaually my flights ends with a BOOM;-(
But when I`m ready I would like to fly with someone the first time, just to learn the basics.

[EHM-1883 Matt]

Originally posted by EHM-C8LE Kyrre
I would like to try online, but after reading this site I`m not so sure.. Are yoy really not allowd to be a noobie and make some mistakes online?. I`ve already installed Ivao but havent tried it yet.. And what is the easiest for a beginner vatism or ivao?.. Anyway I have to improve my landing skills before going online, usaually my flights ends with a BOOM;-(
But when I`m ready I would like to fly with someone the first time, just to learn the basics.

I would say start on IVAO because there is less traffic. I would say start at an airport in the middle of nowhere where you can just get used to the IVAP system and familiarize yourself with things such as the Flight Plan.
The you can work on flying along with other pilots, and then when you've learnt the proper Phraseology, fly with Air Traffic Controllers.
Flying with Air Traffic Controllers is a very big step as it is a completely new experience. We all make big mistakes and it is best to put in your flight plan that you are new, but as we all also know, practice makes perfect and if you fly with them long enough, you will get used to it and it will be easy

My last bit of advice would be when you fly with ATC for the first times, instead of using a microphone, use the text box instead. This way you can take your time, there is not so much pressure to readback, and you can understand everything the ATC says because it is written down. It's harder for the ATC, but if there were no pilots, there would be no ATC so who cares what they think;D

Finally, the online training department will help you fly for the first time with someone else so you will know what you're doing.

[EHM-1953 Daniel]

I have flown a bit online before, i think it's almost 50h or so, but now i don't have the time...
I think that if i had spent 200h or so i would maybe have dared to remove the "newbie" from the flightplan, it is really much to know and understand.
 It's a long time ago i flew the last flight online but i appreciated most of the controllers i met out there and especially those that were extra helpful and then added some lines of courtesy after i left their airspace or so on , but i'm still to inexperienced and insecure with procedures and stuff to log on just to enjoy.
I'm afraid that the controller should say something that i don't understand or doesn't find the mentioned thing in the charts etc.
And on top on that i have had problems with an unstable system and CTDs, and i think that it's unfare to the controller that spend time to help me and then my dot on his screen just disappears....

Well, i think that that's my reasons not to fly online any longer where the time aspect is the strongest for now, with time all the other things would be sorted out.

[EHM-0695 Scott]

I've flown thousands of hours on VATSIM and IVAO networks. Flying in North America is enjoyable and a fun experience. Flying in Europe is hectic and frustrating. Controllers on both networks can be impatient and rude. They complain when your flight plan is not a real world route. If we had thousands of virtual flights then I can see the importance of filing correct flight plans but, when there is one controller and a handful of aircraft in the airspace, let's have an enjoyable and social experience.

Over the years I have even come to recognize controllers I enjoy and ones I avoid. Though the controllers I don't like are VERY FEW, they are enough to make me pass over the online experience in favor of a more relaxed but most often busier flying experience offline.

If you want real world accuracy, go to school and get your commercial licence. My biggest pet peeve of online flying are oceanic controllers..... Seriously what is the point? They kick flights off the network and suspend pilots for lying on the couch during their 5 hour crossing with nothing important to do. What idiot would actually sit in front of the computer for 5 hours while the autopilot navigates across the Atlantic with no other traffic around for 300 miles?

Meh, to me as real as it gets counts on departure and on arrival. I've been flying online since the days of SATCO and I feel the more complicated and regulated flying has become, the less interest. Although the statistics may say otherwise, the turnover on online pilots seems to speak volumes for the need to relax and remember this hobby is social and fun, not a job.

Online flying is in tough competition with AI traffic. With accurate fleets and schedules, you become immersed at a major international airport in a wide variety of traffic. Online aircraft are inconsistent and internet lag can cause some pretty unusual aircraft movements (though better than FS98).

Those of you that have not tried online flying should. It really is more interesting than offline. The learning curve is much steeper than most other online gaming but, worth the experience when you complete a flight online from departure to arrival with full controller support and busy online traffic. For me, I am still content with AI and FSPassengers.

I 100% agree that both pilots and controllers should be polite and courteous while online no exceptions.

Controllers should be able to adapt the level of authenticity to the pilot's liking..... there should be compromise when the airspace is not busy (for example, the controller can simply offer a different clearance to conform to real world planning and the pilot should have the option to accept it or prefer his/her original plan .... again when the airspace is not busy).

Pilots, if the airspace is busy, don't fly there unless you are prepared to follow correct procedures (do some research on the airspace both VATSIM and IVAO provide a wealth of education on their sites). Controlling when it is busy requires alot of multitasking - make it easier and be supportive by knowing your airport procedures and preferred routes etc.

Have fun out there on or off line.

[EHM-2272 Callum]

I passed my vatsim OBS>STU ATC exam last night! I'm in the Essex RTS and I have a meeting with the RTSM soon then I can start controlling! I am already S3 on IVAO and regularly do EGSS_GND, unfortunately I never get EHM pilots as we do not have EGSS on our schedule I have learnt a lot from IVAO but decided to make the move to vatsim as there is a lot more traffic and it will enable me to learn even more!

It just shows I have come a long way as you will see my post up the top saying I was scared to fly online, now a few months later I never fly offline and I am an avid controller!

[EHM-2447 Rob]

I much prefer to fly offline as you can more easily re-create a real world scenario. OK if you do make a mistake you don't get an ear full that's true but with loads of AI and RC4 or PFE depending on my mood, there's plenty of action and radio traffic. You can even have recordings of RW atc going on at the same time if you want.

My experiences with online flights have been disappointing in the most part unless you are involved in a "fly in" in which case you have all the other VA pilots around you and the banter can be fun.

I chose this VA because I like the Flogger and Propilot. It's too easy to fake flights when you fly and post a pirep. Much better to have your flights logged with an acars system. Keeps you honest.

This is a great VA but must say the forum is under used for the number of Pilots on the roster. Come on you lot out there PARTICIPATE!!

Rob

[EHM-1465 Dominic]

Interesting point of view Rob, thanks for sharing your experiences Glad you're happy with your time at EHM

So, does anyone else have a view on this topic? Share your thoughts

[EHM - 2439 Robert]

I have flown and controlled already thousands of hours online. I started with Globalsim where I was Controller 2 and Senior Flight Captain. After a while since there was not much traffic on this network I decided to go to Ivao where I just passsed my Controller 1 exam.
If I read all the stories above from beginning till advanced online pilots, I see a lot of simalarities.

Some group does not dare to fly online, I can imagine, some controlles are really not nice and welcoming to newbees.
I started my first flight on Vatsim and got yelled at by a controller for not sending a good flight plan. I took me half a year to dare and try again.

Overall it is really fun to fly online and share your hobby with other flightsim enthousiasts and I love the online atc. However some people dont seem to be able to seperate the virtual world from the real world.

I get a lot of controllers and pilots on networks really communicating negatively and annoyed all the time.

Whenever somebody does something wrong they get a really negative reaction.

Just one example:

I took off once and did not see the Atc because it just came online and forgot to sqwuak charlie.

Controller:

EHM2439 point 1 you should have contacted me since you are in controlled airspace dont you know the rules of the network?
point 2 you should have sqwuaked mode charlie blablabla

Doesn't a radar indentified please sqwuak mode charlie (as I would do) succeed? Do you really have to downgrade people like that?

Of course I try to do everything as real as it gets but also as fun as it gets.
To share this hobby together via the internet is a fantastic thing and one of the most important things is respect each other and have fun together.

Never forget that there was a time you did not know how to file a flightplan, how to program an Fmc, to allign IRS, to fly Sids/Stars. And think of all the people who gave you information.

Of course if you are new to online flying as said before try to find a not so busy controller to ask questions. Controllers get annoyed when you ask them questions in a crowded airspace, when they have their radar screen full of dots.

And don't forget on networks like Ivao (also google finds a lot) there is so much documentation available that you practically don't need help. I got sometimes annoyed with pilots asking me questions every day which they could have found on the website of the training department. (Don't forget that a lot of people spend a lot of time making this documentation for you)

Anyway long story, I love flying online, bassically allways fly online, sometimes offline if I am too busy with reallife things.

I would really encourage everyone to start flying online, it is a wonderfull experience having live atc and share your hobby with friends.

And don't get disencouraged as a newbee, a network is just like the real world, some people are nice some people aren't!
In the end there are tons of friendly, enthousiastic people who want to help you find your way in the online world!

See you in the air!

Robert

[EHM-0654 Murray]

Robert,

That's a duff experience, controller coming on and putting you down like that. I'd like to think I'd not do such a thing if I was controlling (in fact, let this be a lesson to all of us that ATC online...)

When opening a position, I prefer to take control of traffic from the inside out (so if I'm opening APP/DEP, I work outwards from the field if at all possible)

Assuming you'd just taken off, I would perhaps have sent you "<callsign> squawk mode C and contact me on XXX.XXX when able". That way, you know you've forgotten Mode C, and I make it your responsibility to speak to me when you have a chance.

As for online flying, I adore it: I try to do one of the annual GA tours on IVAO (any IVAO-GB lurkers, the island hopper tour was excellent... more of the same, please). It's only when I can't be wholely sure of completing a flight (learning procedures for a new plane, etc) that I'll fly offline. Even then, I've learned many a plane online.

[EHM-2387 Eric-Jan]

I fly 50/50 on- and offline.

Mostly because I am still learning to fly :]
With new aircraft, I got my hands full trying to perform a SID, route, and STAR I chose upfront. Then, if I feel comfortable that I can fly the procedures, and improvise when ATC asks me to do something different, only then do I go fly online with that bird.
I'm learning the ATR now, I see myself "doing" the 737 after that, and my goal is to master the MD-11. In other words: I've got a long way to go.
In between those studies, I do fly online with those that I've already mastered.

[EHM-0654 Murray]

As long as you've got a good 737 implementation, they're lovely birds to fly (says I with the starts of a 737 simpit). If you want any hints/advice, just ask in the appropriate forum/by email.

[EHM-1997 Alexander]

I haven't flown one in a while, but from what i remember the 737 is a very forgiving aircraft (certainly compared to a 747 )