X-plane: The voyage of discovery begins........

[EHM-2381 Ted]

LOL dramatic thread title eh?

Anyway I got my discs today from Amazon and after about 4-5 hours of swapping discs everything installed quite smoothly.
I updated to the latest version 9.67 and started to rough in my controls a bit and play with the display settings.

I can already see that getting the controls mapped to my stick/HOTAS are going to take some fine tuning.

I also did a basic first pass at getting the visuals sorted out and seem to have managed to get frame locked at 30fps but am not sure about the draw distance if the weather is showing fog or if I am exceeding hardware limits. I'll be playing with this and the controls during the week and following the suggested guides at xplane.org and on the wiki and see where I get to.

I did a couple of quick takeoff-flyaround flights using some mystery default jet and the Cessna 172 (oh boy are my controls wonky) and it does run exceptionally smooth right out of the box with just a couple plays so far. The controls are very twitchy and am going to have to sort out trim as my first assignment to a rocker on my HOTAS didn't work so well.

Any detailed guidance on the best visual settings would be appreciated.

System:
Quad Core2 Q8300@2.5GHz
GeForce 430 1Gb
4Gb DDR3 RAM
WINXP SP3

Also-while I get the trim settings under control is it possible to set some sort of "autorudder"? I do not have pedals at the present time and coordinated turns using the stick twist at slow speeds are utter crap (once I get my new widescreen monitor my next investment is that nice yoke with the thumb pedals).

The fluidity of the sim is astonishing to say the least and I look forward to getting things settled and then whacking in some proper airport scenery and the EHM Twin Otter and see what X-plane really has to offer.

[EHM-1997 Alexander]

DOn't set the fps to 30, leave at 19.

That setting doesn't lock fps like in fsx, instead it maintains that frame rate as a minimum so if you drop under 30, it will bring the fog of death in to maintain 30 fps.

Set it back to 19 and forget about it.

[EHM-2381 Ted]

Hi,

I should have said that the frame appear locked at 30fps-I did not change the minimum frames.

Looking pretty good so far having tweaked it a bit more.

The download for the Wild DH-6 appears to be broken FYI.

[EHM-1997 Alexander]

broken in what way - did you download the aircraft you needed? The repaint is just the livery for it.

Once you have installed the livery, load the plane and then load the livery.

To set the livery as default, open the aircraft using planemaker (in the xp9 folder), select the Wild livery and save the plane.

[EHM-2387 Eric-Jan]

I think he means the download link from the fleet page; it redirects to the forum with a message "Album not found" ...

[EHM-1997 Alexander]

Link should be fixed now.

[EHM-2381 Ted]

I think he means the download link from the fleet page; it redirects to the forum with a message "Album not found" ...

Bingo 

Apologies for not being more clear. I wrote that on a break from trying to mow my lawn (soaked grass still but SO insisted lol) and was in a hurry. I will DL the Twin Otter and see how it flies. I did finally find a default included aircraft that let me mess around properly (I think the Archer?) and the sim actually looks really nice aside from the desolate and depressing airfields but I plan to fix that quickly with some freeware so at least Heathrow looks normal.

The other hard bit is getting used to the controls and the mouse selections. I clicked on a NAV radio and scrolled the mouse and immediately the plane throttled up and up and up until I twigged that default mouse scroll wheel is the throttle derp derp doh  .

I'll have to screenshot my rendering settings for you and see if there are any further adjustments to make. Things look pretty smooth and really sharp; however, I wonder if I can increase the speed of panning L/R/U/D with the hat switch and how to zoom in on instruments would be useful too.

I'm also unsure about the weather. I ticked the boxes requesting realistic download of weather and assume thats it and the sim just works off that.

Cheers

Ted

[EHM-2381 Ted]

A couple more DH-6 related questions:

1-I installed the aircraft and the EHM livery with no problem and did a couple of circuits around CYCG for giggles. The airplane seems to respond well and doing performance touch and go's seems spot on. It is a bit tricky though as there appears to be no radar altimeter that I can see?

2-How on earth does one stick in a flight plan? I see the rather large looking EFIS display on the right side of the cockpit but see no buttons or menu to allow me to program in waypoints.

3-Is there an autopilot somewhere? Its not a big deal on a short hop but some of the legs are in excess of two hours and thats a long time to hold the stick 

[EHM-1997 Alexander]

1. No radio altimeter installed in that aircraft as far as I know (see point 3)

2. I personally use FSCommander + moving map. However: http://wiki.x-plane.com/Chapter_6:_Navigation,_Autopilots,_and_Flying_on_Instruments see 2.2.3 Flying a flight plan.

3. I don't think there's an autopilot on that aircraft panel. However you can add one to it http://wiki.x-plane.com/Creating_a_Panel_in_Plane_Maker

Default x-plane functions aren't disabled, so if you assign the autopilot buttons to hardware controls or use something like the VRInsight MCP, then you can operate the autopilot that way.

May be useful to add an autopilot to the panel - I know others on the MT did when flying it the DHC-6 on x-plane.

[EHM-2381 Ted]

I am trying to import that panel into plane maker as we speak as I know exactly what it needs. This will be a fun learning curve lol.

[EHM-2381 Ted]

OK.

I looked at that tutorial and what I wanted to do was edit the exisiting panel getting rid of some of the silly stuff and adding the important bits like radar alt, GPWS etc. When I open the plane maker and select 2D and attempt to import the panel I get just a blank template.

I will poke around the forums some more and elsewhere and see if I can find a better guide.

Also I am not sure what is going on with the frames but it started snowing at CYCG (nice looking effects) and got that silly gfx warning. Now correct me if I am wrong but my gfx card is a 1Gb card and according to the resource load my current settings were at like 400Mb loaded. Whats going on with that? I find the actual gfx rendering setup slightly confusing in all honesty as it appears to keep changeing dynamically.

I will have to screenshot the weather/rendering page and perhaps one of you might know whats going on there.

Once I get sort of comfy with things I'll ask less questions but this is a very new interface and as you guys are experienced perhaps I can avoid some pitfalls while I climb the learning curve.

[EHM-1997 Alexander]

Also I am not sure what is going on with the frames but it started snowing at CYCG (nice looking effects) and got that silly gfx warning. Now correct me if I am wrong but my gfx card is a 1Gb card and according to the resource load my current settings were at like 400Mb loaded. Whats going on with that? I find the actual gfx rendering setup slightly confusing in all honesty as it appears to keep changeing dynamically.

Probably not a memory issue but could be a cpu bottleneck, or a driver issue. Make sure your gpu drivers are up to date.  I don't have a problem with snow, but then I'm not sure what your specs are.

If the drivers are up to date, then throttle things back a bit until you get higher frames. CYCG is not a location where you're particularly stretching things, especially with the freeware Twotter.

[EHM-2381 Ted]

I seem to have things quite stable and fluid.

X-plane is absolutely gorgeous at nightime as I did a test flight out of Heathrow over London and the sky is actually dark and the ground effects lighting is simply stunning.

The significant downside I can see thus far is that despite loading an enhanced EGLL the terminals and taxiways really don't match up well with reality so online jet or turboprop flight between significant airfields may be an issue as taxi/docking accurately is fairly important. And I am not wild about the default aircraft beyond the Piper (which actually flies well and has a decent virtual cockpit) and I find the downloaded Twin Otter rather bleah (although the flight model is about the same as ours under FSX.

I am going to research a strong payware model (likely the MU-2 or one of the PC-12's) and have a go. I will also get the freeware x737 and see how that model works depsite the lack of a 2D pit just to get a proper feel for a proper jet aircraft in the sim.

It seems to me so far that where Xplane utterly shines is in the area of prop/turboprop flight and the sim fluidity

Just as a side note I have also just ordered and will be installing FS9  . I also got the PMDG 737 6/7/8/900 package for a song from Amazon at the same time. I was reluctant to do this but as my F1 ATR, QW757, FSC, and REX all came with installers for FS9 what the heck. Why not have at least one sim that can run at max fidelity given my current hardware  .

I can easily see myself using FSX for the Twin Otter/PC-12 as those planes are just awesome and smooth....as is the QW 757 for the most part, the heavy metal stuff like PMDG on FS9, and the MU-2/PC-12 under X-plane for when FSX/FS9 begins to become irritating.

I'm still in the process of getting the controls sussed out and mapped properly to my stick/HOTAS. And how the heck can I disable or change the assignment of the scroll wheel on my mouse away from throttle control!

More rambles as I experiment some more. I am getting tempted to check out Mars lol.

[EHM-1997 Alexander]

The default planes in x-plane 9 are meh.

The payware is hit and miss. Definately get the MU-2 as your first xp9 payware. The flight model is amazing and the plane is lovely right now with a sweet cockpit update coming. Just learn to use trim! It looks to be far better than the two payware PC-12 models currently available for x-plane.

Try this: http://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?app=downloads&showfile=11933

And this: http://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?automodule=downloads&showfile=11835

This is coming:


There's a great bunch of payware on the horizon too - Saab 340, Dash8-Q400, ATR72-500 (by the same guy that made the freeware F27 linked above), 777, 737-200, 747-200 and 747-400

You can't disable / remap the mouse scroll to my knowledge - shame, just don't touch it, use your other hardware instead!

Lets look forward to xp10 as well: http://www.x-plane.com/blog/2011/03/lots-of-testing-lots-of-absurdity/

Also have a read of http://xplane10.wordpress.com/

[EHM-2381 Ted]

Ahhh thank you for that Robin link. I just did a little hop from Heathrow to London City and back again and thats a terrific cockpit-and is it ever a handful to fly in high winds. I am beginning to appreciate just how tricky the flight models are and its nice to fly a little plane with a sensible cockpit layout-and good thing I can read French for the main manual as it took some trial and error to get the canopy shut.

I think I am going to get the PC-12....the latest edition from Shade Tree Micro as thats an aircraft I am quite used to flying. I also intend to pick up that recommended scenery package as its a nice offer for that whole WILD division area. While the MU-2 looks great I'll hold off on that one as the reviews suggest it is quite a difficult aircraft to manage.

I am still tweaking the gfx here and there trying to get the best balance of eye candy-versus-flight visuals and am just about there. Still getting my controls sorted as well as there are quite a few options regarding view modes and zooms I am getting my head around.

If this is a teaser of what V10 might bring-all I can say is wow and look out MS Flight lol.

[EHM-1997 Alexander]

While the MU-2 looks great I'll hold off on that one as the reviews suggest it is quite a difficult aircraft to manage.

That's exactly why you should get that plane, it really demonstrates the flight model differences between x-plane and msfs.

You have to master the MU-2 but it's so satisfying when you do. Both props rotate in the same direction and the aircraft has a strong left roll tendancy. The aircraft also leans over on the ground depending on fuel distribution.

Approaches are really interesting, because you effectively trim the aircraft for your power setting and when making changes on approach, you either have to re-trim efficiently or wrestle the aircraft down  

Despite all of this, the aircraft is relatively easy to pick up and fly. You don't have a huge manual full of procedures to read before you get started.

[EHM-2381 Ted]

Here is a question for you as every time I get Xplane where I want it that "fog of death" as you call it shows up.

I notice in the rendering details box that the sim is calling like 3-450Mb of video RAM. How can this be an issue if my gfx card is a 1Gb card? It's like the software only sees half the available gfx memory?

System:

ASUS P5P41TD
Core2 Quad @2.5GHz
4Gb DDR3 RAM
Nvidia Ge430 1Gb
WINXP SP3

[EHM-1997 Alexander]

As I mentioned in another post, it won't be the video memory that will be the bottle neck, it'll be the cpu or the gpu speed - even if it has more than enough memory for the 3d objects and textures, that doesn't mean it's fast enough to draw them.

Try reducing the strength of some of the autogen or try turning off per pixel shaders etc.

A Geforce 430 is a fair, but not particularly strong video card.

Here's a comparison between the 430 and the 570 in my rig: http://www.hwcompare.com/9013/geforce-gt-430-1gb-vs-geforce-gtx-570/

and between the 430 and the 4870x2 (my last card): http://www.hwcompare.com/7021/geforce-gt-430-vs-radeon-hd-4870-x2/

the 570 is 3-9 times faster than a 430, with only 1.5 times the ram. Ram is only a small part of the picture (the 570's ddr5 ram is also faster than the 430's ddr3).

Even with the 570 and an overclocked i7, I don't run everything maxed in x-plane - you just have to be selective with the settings. dropping per pixel lighting has a large boost to performance. Having large textures should be too much of an issue. You want a stable set of options that will remain smooth even when the nasty weather and detailed scenery shows up.

A lot in flight sims is down to the cpu as well - your quad core is a decent enough processor, but is also 2 generations old now.

Don't think I'm saying you have to throw out the machine and buy a new one, I'm just highlighting that these will all limit how far you can crank up the settings.

If you have the visuals where you want them but you get fog of death then you either need to drop the visuals selectively, or up the hardware.

[EHM-2381 Ted]

Aha-my misunderstanding regarding the system requirements. Thanks for the detailed explaination.

[EHM-2381 Ted]

Ok I have to say that I am getting a bit frustrated here. Not a big deal as it is an experiment but I am having major headaches getting the Xplane to display anything close to FSX.

I have tried knocking everything down to default (and lower), different resolutions from my native 1280x1024, knocking off dynamic weather and just displaying CAVOK etc etc and I still cannot get the FPS above 19-20. Given that the world detail is a hell of a lot less that what is displayed in FSX I am sort of questioning myself here.

I do find it hard to believe that a fairly modern (although not OC i7 or something) system with a reasonable GPU is not capable of at least letting me get a solid 24fps minimum so I can forget messing about with the rendering options already.

*deep breath*

I would actually take this over to the xplane.org site and see if I could bug them for some guidance as I see folks there with terrible-specc'd Macs and other lower PC's claiming far higher settings-but they require some 2-post rule in order to post anything lol.

I am not going to give up for the time being but I am spending quite a bit of time not flying trying to dial this thing in. I really want to like the sim as I can see the potential is there-but after flying the Twin Otter in FSX last night and rolling a 757 around earlier today I'm going to take a step back.

I'll come back to it in a few days.

p.s. I did get the Shade Tree Micro PC-12 and it does look and fly very well with a solid VC that makes sense and generally matches up with the FSX versions. I am glad I held off on the MU-2 as trying to figure out how to fly a non-contra-rotating twin while faffing about getting the sim running nicely would be a bit much. The flight model is spot on-maybe just a bit over-torque"y" on the ground in my opinion.

Anyway-I am going to just fly this weekend and enjoy myself. I knew this would be an experiment 

[EHM-1997 Alexander]

Sounds like somethings not quite right - you should have loads of fps at default settings

However, it may be a driver issue. What driver are you running?

The latest are here: http://www.nvidia.co.uk/object/winxp-266.58-whql-driver-uk.html

[EHM-1997 Alexander]

Just remembered you updated the sim from base install.

Humour me and delete your preferences: http://wiki.x-plane.com/Deleting_the_Preferences

You'll have to remap all your hardware, but this may be why you get crap fps.

Clearing preferences should be done after each update.

[EHM-2381 Ted]

Drivers are correct.

I stayed up late and just flew CYCG to CYYC in the tiger-stripe PC-12 and things are looking a whole lot better 

Deleting the prefs seemed to get things unscrewed. I still need to dial it in a bit better as I probably have a couple things set too high still but no death fog at KSEA and other places even with dynamic weather. I did notice that for me the sim runs better in windowed mode which seems slightly odd but whatever.

Flying>tweaking!

I'll screenshot a couple items tomorrow so you can see what I have been flying.

[EHM-2387 Eric-Jan]

A nice, helpful thread this is turning out to be, guys!

I am considering X-plane myself,
but that will have to wait until autumn, or so, due to time restrictions until then. I am secretly hoping that V10 will be out by then , but if not, then I'll pick up V9.x and read all about setting it up right in this thread

In other words: please keep asking, Ted, and thank you for taking the time to answer so thorougly, Alexander!

[EHM-1997 Alexander]

Heh, I feel Ted's pain, been through it all myself so don't see why anyone else should suffer. X-plane is a great sim and it's good to see others enjoying what it has to offer. The more we solve these common issues, the easier it comes from later adopters.

Ted is spot on in that currently x-plane's strength is in the prop aircraft, but there are some great planes on the horizon, and Peter's airbus are top systems simulations.

Great to hear the preference clear out has fixed your fps. Now hopefully you can enjoy x-plane