The Simulator Poll and X-plane announcement discussion

[EHM-1997 Alexander]

This thread and poll provide an opportunity for you to express an interest in the platforms, ask questions and get some comparisons of strengths and weaknesses between MSFS and X-Plane.

You should be able to select all that apply, and if you make a mistake or change your mind, be able to change your votes.

You do not need to vote in the poll to participate in the discussion.

[EHM-0654 Murray]

As Alex knows well, I switched to X-Plane from FSX about a month ago, as I was disenfranchised by the "cartoon" flight models in FSX when compared to X-Plane.

If I have a complaint about X-Plane v9, it's the lack of scenery (general airport buildings and the like). FSX populates the world around the pilot a lot more than X-Plane v9. Of course, we're expecting X-Plane v10 to redress this imbalance quite spectacularly

[EHM-1997 Alexander]

I switched from MSFS to X-plane exclusively over a year ago now, which was a tough move considering the amount of money I have invested in add-ons for MSFS (I have addons from PMDG, Captain Sim, Aerosoft, JustFlight... et al). Many x-planers I know actually switch between the sims to enjoy the best offering of each, and for a while I did just that, mainly while battling through driver hell (ati and opengl make for interesting times).

That said, I've also had a range of problems and bugs in MSFS, so both have equal share to be fair. The difference is that x-plane has seen continued development and the problems I had are gone now. I would say that version 9 isn't quite at the point where it would perhaps be a better choice for pilots flying heavy metal routes, but I think it's already a better choice for VFR. If X-plane 10 lives up to expectations, then it may well be, especially with its enhanced use of multiple cores

I love the XPUIPC freeware plugin which attempts to emulate the FSUIPC interface (work in progress, but a lot already usable, and a wide client works without a fee), for x-plane. This allows me to connect Flogger 4,  FlightSim Commander and Project Magenta up to x-plane and use them as I would for MSFS. This allowed reuse of a chunk of addons I had invested in.

Default airports are sparse in version 9, although the 'believable world' of 10 should hopefully address that. Add on scenery for airports can look as good as MSFS, and the lighting is much better.

I find that MSFS gives a greater feeling of 'aviation', gate to gate, whereas x-plane is more focused on the flying (currently).

Some of that will be addressed if the new ATC and traffic in version 10 lives up to the hype.

What really clinched it for me was 120fps average on the first leg of the wild division tour, the ultra smooth gauges and fluid sensation of flight. I think that I jumped to x-plane as an early adopter, but it's reaching a point where it will be more appealing to other MSFS pilots, and that should keep improving over time.

[EHM-2625 Jason]

Well I've taken the plunge and ordered X plane 9 from Amazon (only £17.91).

Will be able to compare to FS9 on my quad core Vista based machine, MSFS doesnt stretch the machine.  FSX has been a nightmare, and would usually freeze after 45-60 minutes.

Have tried the demo from Laminar site and performed very well, all be it limited to 10 minutes.

Will watch this space for more info and developments.

[EHM-2155 Mariano]

What you need is Windows 7 mate... toss Vista out the window, seriously.

[EHM-1997 Alexander]

Jason, once you get started on x-plane, either open a thread, or follow the MSFS => X-plane threads (might be in admin forums, if so I'll move them).

There are a few of us who should be able to guide you through teething issues and point you in the direction of decent freeware (or payware, although I appreciate there's a usually a good stretch of time before making that jump).

Can't argue with the price you paid either - even with version 10 coming up, that's worth trying it out.

[EHM-2381 Ted]

Hi Alex,

I am starting to get interested in what the current version of X-plane has to offer.

As you say I have a fair bit invested in FSX; however, the constant tweaking and fighting performance can be a real drag even with a fairly decent and recent system.

If you don't mind I have a few questions for you:

1-As the X-10 version is under delayed release do you think it worth the purchase now or just wait for v10?

2-Which aircraft are actually available that are compatible with the EuroHarmony fleet at the present time (preferably with good fully functional VC's)?

3-You mention you can use FS Commander (and I saw it will save X-plane plans)-can you also use the "GPS" function to fly SID/STARS under X-Plane or is it strictly limited to flight planning? This is with an eye towards VATSIM flying.

4-Is autogen and AI traffic implemented in the current version? I do like some eye candy at my airports and when flying around.

5-Will it run smooth with high settings on my PC with Q8300 Core2 Quad 2.5GHz/nVidia Ge430 1GB gfx/4Gb RAM under WINXP SP3?

Understand that I am not looking to replace FSX-more like enhance my sim experience when FSX gets annoying 

Cheers

Ted

p.s. Do have have EHM repaints for xplane already?

[EHM-1997 Alexander]

Apologies for the terse replies - I just lkost a message I had written

1-As the X-10 version is under delayed release do you think it worth the purchase now or just wait for v10?

Your call, you can get it for £17/18 at amazon: http://www.amazon.co.uk/First-Class-Simulations-X-Plane-PC/dp/B0018M2CV4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1298912302&sr=8-1

XP-10 isn't in testing yet and will be a little wobbly when released for a little bit.

Here's a thread at the org answering this question: http://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?showtopic=47073

2-Which aircraft are actually available that are compatible with the EuroHarmony fleet at the present time (preferably with good fully functional VC's)?

Most freeware won't have a VC (like MSFS). Payware add-ons are where that's at. There's currently a lot of payware in the GA market (where x-plane shines), but heavies are coming. There is a payware 777, 747-200/400, 737-200 in development.

Please be aware, that while the MT have discussed flying substitute aircraft in x-plane, no formal plan has yet been drawn up - where possible, I personally prefer that we use the same aircraft, or have an aircraft officially in the fleet, so please wait on official word on that before purchasing (except the MU-2B, that plane is too good not to get).

Freeware
--------

• Twinpropflyer's B1900d (No VC, Excellent flight model, good 2d panel)
• XPFW 757 (Old file now, vc doesn't work in xp9) http://forums.xplanefreeware.net/index.php?automodule=downloads&showfile=50
• XPFW 767 (low-mid quality VC, not flown) http://forums.xplanefreeware.net/files/file/85-boeing-767-300er-general-electric/
• XPFW 747 http://forums.xplanefreeware.net/files/file/111-boeing-747-400-rolls-royce-engines-beta-1/
• QPac A320 (no vc - systems are co-written by Peter Hager - the king of Airbus in XP) QPAC A320-232 Full FBW
• Riviere's E-170 http://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?app=downloads&showfile=12075
• Andreas Benjamin BAE 146 http://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?app=downloads&showfile=11297 (basically same as the paywarwe with lower quality model
• EoleCreation A380 (TRENT) http://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?app=downloads&showfile=11017
• Tobs Fokker 100 http://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?app=downloads&showfile=10029
• Rivieres (modded) ATR72-500 http://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?app=downloads&showfile=8838 (Note there is a payware in production for this plane)
• riviere's adapted Bombardier Q400 http://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?app=downloads&showfile=8115
• riviere's CRJ-200 (Challenger 850) http://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?app=downloads&showfile=6196

See the download page for the DHC-6

Payware
-------

• Tom Kyler's MU-2B (Good VC (FSX quality), outstanding flight model) While ageing, this is probably still the #1 payware addon for x-plane. It's not in the EHM fleet yet, but you can fly it as a substitute for the PC-12 in EHB. The cockpit is being updated as well. http://www.x-aviation.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=29
• Dan Klau's Embraer ERJ 140 Regional Jet (Good VC, v.good flight model) - possible substitude for Challenger 850, is also being updated
• Peter Hager's A380 (VC in progress, excellent systems, good model) http://petersuv.vs120062.hl-users.com/index_E.html
• Peter Hager's A330 Family http://petersuv.vs120062.hl-users.com/index_E.html
• Peter Hager's A340 Family http://petersuv.vs120062.hl-users.com/index_E.html
• Sukhoi superjet 100 (ok vc - being remade new vc and external model a large improvement) - possible substitute for E-170
• Sharde Tree Micro's Pilatus PC-12/47 - v10 (Don't own) http://store01.prostores.com/servlet/x-planestore/Detail?no=246
• Michael Sgier's Pilatus PC-12 (Don't own) http://store01.prostores.com/servlet/x-planestore/Detail?no=248
• Andreas Benjamin's Avro RJ 100 (No VC, fair external model, good flight model) http://xplane.andreasbenjamin.com/

Excellent Freeware F-27 - http://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?app=downloads&showfile=11933 (not in our fleet)

3-You mention you can use FS Commander (and I saw it will save X-plane plans)-can you also use the "GPS" function to fly SID/STARS under X-Plane or is it strictly limited to flight planning? This is with an eye towards VATSIM flying.

I use the Autoheading button on the pop up window and it will fly the x-plane aircraft along the route as it does in MSFS in addition to showing the moving map.

You can also use VasFMC and Project Magenta plus others with x-plane.

4-Is autogen and AI traffic implemented in the current version? I do like some eye candy at my airports and when flying around.

Yes, but not as you expect. Autogen - buildings, trees etc are in, but no airport autogen (terminal buildings - airports are empty without a scenery). You can get sceneries for airports for free in the .org download manager and there is good payware scenery for canada (wild). There is good photoscenery (payware) available for the US and the UK.

You can add AI traffic in or have stuff show uyp on vatsim / ivao, but not like MSFS flying routes ai - at least not in v9.

5-Will it run smooth with high settings on my PC with Q8300 Core2 Quad 2.5GHz/nVidia Ge430 1GB gfx/4Gb RAM under WINXP SP3?

If you can run FSX, you'll get a better level of scenery with higher fps in x-plane.

x-plane's ground textures are ultra sharp without blurries. Clouds can look excellent (with rex addon), but are 2d billboard in v9 and weirdly rotate with the view.

p.s. Do have have EHM repaints for xplane already?

Yup

Freeware
--------
B1900d EHM
DHC-6 Wild
x737-800 EHM (needs to be reworked)
XPFW 747-400f EHC
E-170 EHM (needs to be redone)

Payware
-------
MU-2B EHB

I am currently the only person mad enough to be doing x-plane repaints, but at the moment I'm working very hard with other MT members to get the new website out prior to our 10 year anniversary - it's been a complete rewrite in almost 2 years of spare time development and should be a treat to all members and a refreshing change for the VA.

X-plane repaints will be picked up again after the new site is released and I knock out a few FSX payware repaints, whcih should bring us nicely along to x-plane 10.

[EHM-2381 Ted]

With there being an ATR72, PC-12, and Twin Otter available and the £18 quid Amazon deal I may just have to give it a whirl although the thought of empty airfields with just runways present is a bit of a turn off.

Do the airfields at least have lights?

I take it flying it on VATSIM is the best way to go then?

I'll ask some more questions as I think of them.

[EHM-1997 Alexander]

yes the airfields have lights. Search youtube for x-plane vids.

Airports can have buildings, you just need to download some of the freeware sceneries.

[EHM-2381 Ted]

Sorry to be a pest Alex....but are the runways, taxiways, and the majority of the parking areas at least defined and marked? I was having a hard time seeing those from the videos.

Its not the £17 thats driving these questions...its the thought of installing 70Gb over 6 hours and knowing what to expect out of the box lol.

I took a look at the ATR72 cockpit and it looks really nicely done actually.

**edit**I watched a vid with the ATR cockpit in Xplane and honestly-that viewpoint is horrid from the 2D panel:

landing a atr 72 500 at koma in xplane 9

Not to mention a terrible pilot pranging the thing like a stone  ....But as you can see I couldn't tell if there were defined parking areas and posted taxiways etc which are pretty important for flying on VATSIM.

[EHM-1997 Alexander]

There are, it all depends on the afcad and what scenery add ons you have installed. People do fly on vatsim and icao with x-plane, so I assume they're fine with it.

you could always use FSC Zoomed in for airport layout as it is in FSX along with airport charts.

Euroharmony in x-plane 1

There's a few more vids in my channel as well showing ehm planes

[EHM-2381 Ted]

That B1900 and the MU-2 video I watched look great.

I am getting really tempted as I get really annoyed sometimes with FSX deciding to stutter/pause when it feels like it.

Its either that or say the heck with it and get FS9 and max it all out-but stepping backwards would pretty much suck.

[EHM-2381 Ted]

I forgot to ask-is FLogger comaptible with Xplane or would it be back to manual PIREPS?

Not that its a big deal lol....but I am lazy and love automated logging so I don't have to chase scribbled notes all over the desktop 

Also-does X-plane perform better without all these nonesense tweaks and random issues that FSX always seems to have? I mena my FSX is pretty stable and flies great with the QW757 and the EHM DH6 and PC12 but man does it ever choke on the F1 ATR. It makes me quite nervouse when considering payware and there are-of course-the normal micro-pauses and other rubbish when FSX is loading terrain/autogen/weather/clouds etc lol yuck 

And also my FSX gets choked on VATSIM under FSInn...not sure why but its annoying.

I just want smooth flights online without having to grumble about performance all the time.

[EHM-1997 Alexander]

I forgot to ask-is FLogger comaptible with Xplane or would it be back to manual PIREPS?

Not that its a big deal lol....but I am lazy and love automated logging so I don't have to chase scribbled notes all over the desktop 

Yes. You currently have to use the FS9 or FSX install and fool it, but aye, I run Flogger 4 with x-plane. There are instructions in the manual. Sometime later, Andrei may parse x-plane scenery files and thus fully support x-plane on windows, but it works well enough for now.

Also-does X-plane perform better without all these nonesense tweaks and random issues that FSX always seems to have? I mena my FSX is pretty stable and flies great with the QW757 and the EHM DH6 and PC12 but man does it ever choke on the F1 ATR. It makes me quite nervouse when considering payware and there are-of course-the normal micro-pauses and other rubbish when FSX is loading terrain/autogen/weather/clouds etc lol yuck 

I just want smooth flights online without having to grumble about performance all the time.

Yep, set and forget.

X-plane for me is FSX eye-candy with FS9 performance. No stuttering.

Frame rates depend on addons and options set, but on my machine, at 1920x1200 I average in the 60-100 range. YMMV, but will be better than FSX.

Just remember X-plane is not FSX/FS. The sims are different with different strengths and weaknesses. If you want a full procedure airliner, wait for the appropriate payware to come out for x-plane first.

[EHM-0654 Murray]

As long as you have XPUIPC "installed" (it's an FSUIPC compatibility plugin for X-Plane) then FLogger V3 and V4 both work reasonably well. At present you need an FS installation to fake up an airports database (Andrei is working on direct X-Plane support however).

[EHM-2381 Ted]

Whats the support like for widescreen monitors? I am getting a 24" panel later this month and plan to run FSX/X-plane on the big panel with the second output from my card driving the 19" panel for FS Commander and other inflight stuff like FSInn/xSquawkbox/TS etc.

And I am not hugely fussed about the full procedure airliners as you can tell from my flight records  . The only "real" procedural aircraft I have is the F1 ATR as the QW757 package-while good and engaging-is not some demented PMDG timewaster requiring 30 real-time minutes or whatever just to align the IRS.

If X-plane can provide me with enough major airports to make flying the ATR/PC-12 around and enough add-on scenery to make the DH-6 a treat to fly around for WILD ops I couldn't really ask for more as I can always use FSX for the 757 until X-plane catches up. Although I did see the Xplane 737 is coming along fairly well from what I have read.

Couple more a/c specific questions:

-Is the DH-6 Twin Otter in Xplane a functional VC?
-Ditto the PC-12 payware? I wasn't sure.
-Ditto the ATR? The F1 ATR is my worst aircraft for frame rates in FSX (I struggle to get 20FPS from the thing) but I do love to fly it.

In your videos I see aircraft on the ground-are those just sceneries?

I should probably just spend the £17 and find out myself lol. Will that Amazon version of XP9 update properly using the download from .org?

[EHM-1997 Alexander]

I use a 27" widescreen as my primary display.

A VC works with any size screen. Widescreen panels display great on widescreen. 4:3 panels are zoomed (not stretched) on x-plane. You can then use arrow keys to move up and down on them.

If you want to spend some money get the payware add on's from Tom Curtis

http://store01.prostores.com/servlet/x-planestore/Categories?category=Scenery%3ATom+Curtis+Original+Scenery

$54.95 (£33) gets you Canadian Rockies + Inside Passage + Final Frontier Promo Pack. I own and would recommend this for Wild flying.

- The DHC-6 has a 2d panel, not a VC. There is a full cockpit payware DHC-6 in development.
- I don't own either PC-12, but it comes with VC. I recommend the alternative MU-2B.
- The ATR you talk about is the freeware one, so assume no pit. Again there is a VC payware model in development - http://forums.x-pilot.com/index.php?topic=1513.0

Yes. Static scenery aircraft in my vids.

You can download the demo and play with that for 10 minutes. Give it a try to see perfromance: http://www.x-plane.com/pg_downloads.html It's just around Innsbruck, and that is the only x-plane 9 airport that comes with scenery out of the box, but will show you autogen. Turn textures up to extreme res.

[EHM-2381 Ted]

I ordered it off Amazon before they run out of stock 

I figure what the heck-I have spent a lot more on "coasterware" software over the years and it will be great to have an alternative to FSX and I suppose a preview of the XPv10 possibilities.

I am sure I'll have a few questions once I get the monster install done. I'll have a look at that MU-2 (looks great) and the Tom Curtis scenery packs. I did find a couple of useful sites as well www.xplanetutorials.net and forums.x-pilot.com and being fairly handy with software I'm sure I'll be up and running wothout too mamy headaches. As long as the DH-6 is decently flyable from the 2D cockpit I can live lol.

[EHM-1997 Alexander]

Once it arrives, download the updater from the same page as the demo I linked and make sure to update to the latest full release - unlike MSFS, X-plane development has a lot of point releases through the life of a version. We're at 9.65-ish I think.

It's also good practise to make a copy folder to hold your known working x-plane installation without the huge scenery folder. This is because sometimes, updates can break on your particular system. It's rare, but does happen. This lets you update and have a roll-back plan.

You'll also need to download the XPUIPC plugin which aims to emulate the FSUIPC interface.

[EHM-2381 Ted]

I should have it by the weekend depending on Amazon (had to order Joe Abercrombie's latest book too).

I am glad I have loads of room on my drive as that is a pig of an install. Should I defrag before or after I update to the latest revision?

Anything else you can think of let me know. I plan to initially download and install the Wild division DH6 and use that to get used to things before I start messing with add-ons. I imagine there will be a system learning curve but the video tutorials for installing things etc seem ok.

And if I get a headache I'll just boot up FSX and take a break  

p.s. I am almost positive I spotted an SU-80 for X-plane!

[EHM-2381 Ted]

Hi Alex,

Cheers for that initial setup guide.

I'll follow it when I get my copy and see how I get on. It may not be a bad idea to consider opening a dedicated X-plane section so when I flood you with questions I don't hog bandwidth in this location 

I am looking forward to getting this installed. Having no real pre-concieved expectations I am very interested to see how it performs on my system and more importantly-how it flies/simulates/insert term of choice here.

Cheers

Ted

[EHM-2097 Andrei]

That is an old thread all right but... WHY did no one mention X-Plane 10 is available for Linux too? That would have raised my interest much sooner

Andrei

[EHM-1997 Alexander]

Thought that was obvious  X-plane has always been triple platform.

That said, many plug ins aren't compiled for linux including XPUIPC.

Did you see the article that Steam is coming to linux along with source games (native not wine ports).

http://www.reghardware.com/2012/04/26/valve_suggests_steam_for_linux_is_close/

That should do a fair bit to raise uptake of the platform IMHO.