motivation

[EHM-1883 Matt]

Just bringing back this topic, I flew some PP flights, and it is true that while taxiing (if online), planes seem to float about the place. When I fly with Ben, while taxiing, he's jumping all over the place. Not because he's taxiing badly, but because he lives so far away, and the connection is worse (unless there's something Ben hasn't told me!), so, you might accidentally crash into someone while taxiing, so I think it's a good thing to have crash detection off while on the ground. even in the sky, Ben jumps around, and we've had a few times where I've nearly crashed into him, but it's more common on the ground.

[EHM-1800 Franz]

Hi Pilots !
Yesterday I tried to outwit the ProPilot Flightlogger.
I flew  the PSS Airbus A330 from LSZH to LEMD and put the gear up/down at 10000 ft and climbed and descent in managed mode.  The result - 0 points !!!;D
Today I did the same again - with 570 penaltypoints :$  
Somtime, this can be very frustrating, because the A330/340 is my favorit aircraft, but it seems that you can only collect points with it, there are already a few thousands I got with them - without knowing why :%
Is there no solution for this
Lots of greetings
Franz

[EHM-1703 Philip]

Franz, we have two main problems with the PSS Airbuses... The landing light issue is one unfortunately at this time there is no cure due to the code being written in to the panel not the CFG file.The next is the PSS airbus is prone to climb like a rocket should you enter managed mode without all the correct criteria set. There are many posts on how to combat this on the PSS forums, but it is a matter of learning as apparently it is a "Realistic" trait of the aircraft!!!!! The only tips I can give are derate your take of and climb as much as possible. Carry as much weight as possible and make sure you maintain V2+10 thru the initial climb section. I usually dont let VNAV/LNAV take over until 1,000 feet as I find this also helps.

Hope this helps a little.

Regards,

[EHM-1617 Iain]

Carry as much weight as possible

Not often that you find that given as advice.

[EHM-1703 Philip]

Well, to be honest Iain, my phrase may have been ill considered.  

The point I was trying to make is that some people never consider the load of these aircraft and with a quarter of a tank of fuel and no Pax/Cargo these planes should come with a NASA logo on the tail! (Same can be said for a 767 or 747 with no load!)

IMHO a realistic load for these aircraft should be taking off with no less than 80% MTOW which is still 100,000 pounds short of a full load on an A330-300!

Most airlines have a break even point for flights and that depends on a lot of factors but at current levels most medium or long haul flights are operating at high occupancy otherwise frequency is adjusted to compensate. Agreed, short haul is a different matter, but we are talking about the big Class 6/7 birds here. I would suggest we load no less than 80% Pax/Cargo unless you are instructed otherwise by the event, mission or ProPilot. (Now lets not get in to the pax waiting issue here, I am tired and its late! ) Of course, Fuel planning always plays a hand and so does Max Landing weight so these factors must also be considered.

Hope this clears my point up!

[EHM-1883 Matt]

I don't like PSS. I downloaded their A320, and the FMC doesn't work! I can't fly!

[EHM-0654 Murray]

Originally posted by EHM-1703 Philip
... and make sure you maintain V2+10 thru the initial climb section. I usually dont let VNAV/LNAV take over until 1,000 feet as I find this also helps.

Bit slow noticing this, but...

On the B738 CDU there is one "setting" that along with the climb thrust mode has a profound effect on the extended climb rate.  This is the T/R ALT (on Project Magenta, it's on the PERF INIT page or N1 LIMIT page): this is the thrust reduction altitude, and is the altitude AGL where take-off thrust N1 is automatically reduced to climb thrust N1. Usually T/O N1 is 90%+ while climb thrust will hover around 70-80%. Per default, PM leaves this BLANK! Boeing default is 1,500ft. Without this being set, the A/T leaves T/O thrust in place until transition.

As for climb mode, unless you need a 8%+ climb rate (and there are one or two SIDs that call for such), stick with CLB-2 which will be more than good enough (easily 7%) for most SIDs. If you want absolute control, use MCP speed and climb, and set the VS to no more +4000.

Finally, just as Phil points out, getting your T/O and landing weights right can be a big help. I personally use a B738 fuel planning program that I found on the web somewhere that seems to do a reasonable job. I'll get it's "About" info once I get home tonight and post a link.

Without everything being set somewhat correctly, an unladen B738 will happily climb from ground level to FL350+ at 280kts/6,500ftm without breaking into a sweat...

EDIT: OK, it's designed for the PMDG 737 series (600-900), but like I say, I use it happily enough with the Project Magenta/POsky pairing (I just have to turn up some of the landing values to get sensible reserves at landing). Anyway, here's the link http://www.metacraft.com/737NGFP/

[EHM-2089 Vincent]

I like Pro-pilot because it gets me closer to the real. Virtual flying lets you get away with everything, and its good to have some kind of controller who is watching to make things real.

I did too crash a plane, but it has not stopped me from "not-flying" again. Thanks Bruno for the kind words of advice too. I am determined to fly more on pro-pilot and have good flights and ofcourse less crashes or virtually no crashes!!

I must also thank my hub manager, Dominic for the kind words and also to Robert for giving me his piece of advice after I crashed. That does not mean I will crash again ... to get those pieces of advice.!!! Lol

[EHM-0948 Bruno]

Thank you Vicent.

This system was made exactly to purpose that kind of motivation on pilots

This year we are planning more features on ProPilot, and more ProPilot events, so expect everything from it

[EHM-1412 Alex]

I'm curious what the new features on ProPilot will be.  And what kind of new ProPilot events will come in the future. Hopefully an event with legs of around 1,5,  maximum 2,5 hours of flight with enough time to complete the flights just like the F1-event.

[EHM-2089 Vincent]

Saying was simple, that I was not discouraged, but today when I took up the ProPilot flight, I was a bit sceptical and scared too especially when I approached to land on a totally new airport (LOWS) where I never practiced landing around. Ofcourse I had done a short flyaround LSZH to practice with the Shorts360 plane.

An lo I broke that jinx, I did two flights on ProPilot and both times with 0 FAC.

I should say thanks to the handling of the plane, which otherwise could be even more jittery. The one reason I actually love prop-planes, is the response time, if something is happening wrong, push F4 and you have an immediate response, unless, jets which take some time to respond. Secondly ofcourse Prop planes are lighter and smaller so response can be faster. Will comment better when I start flying those jets!!!

[EHM-2127 Andrew]

Just joined and flew my first flight , standard.

if am reading this pro stuff right its just like a slim line version of FSpassangers which I have used a lot. That was very harsh on full settings, forget to turn on taix lights and you would be shot, forget the landing lights and  get shot hung drawn and quartered ECT.

Next flight am going to see how it sits along side FSP.

[EHM-2089 Vincent]

Hi Andrew,

Well some things need to be done when we fly in the Sim environment. I believe that we got to be doing exactly what the real pilot does except that we are sitting on our chair and not in the air

I too used the demo version of FS Passenger, found it to be quite good, but yes does not put the penalty like the one we get on Pro-Pilot. Keep playing you will master the art of playing well and then whether pro-pilot is on, or any other controlling software is present, it will not make a difference.

After doing more than 500+ big planes (jet above A320/B737 and other jets) landings, I dont have fear approaching an unknown airport because i know the plane and also the instruments. thats it --- once you know yourself on FS, pro-pilot is just another software that runs on your system like notepad.exe and ofcourse which saves you the trouble to file your pirepl

Enjoy yourself when on FS.

[EHM-1749 Hector]

Have you heard of FS Flight Keeper? I would compare more ProPilot with FSFK than with FP. FP is nice because puts you a little bit more into the real commercial flights world,  but FSFK is an exhaustive way to test your flying skills. It is extremely accurate and you can really do a lot of things including crew voices, etc. After each flight you are presented with the analysis of your fligth.

ProPilot is like FSFK without the ACCARS in your cockpit and no voice. I have flown with the three of them active and it is interesting when you analyze the flight afterwards.

Like everything in this world, FSFK has features that FP does not or viceversa but at the end, both of them are good for you to improve your flying skills as well as give you a more real feeling which is great.
ProPilot, on the other hand, also measures your flying skills but in a less real environment. It is like when you flight alone or when you copilot is mute.

At the end there is no doubt that it forces you to act like the real pilots: Plan your flights, do your check lists and follow exactly the procedures but above all, keep the control of your plane most of the time. Simply put: forget about the auto-throttle.
Regards,
Hector

[EHM-2155 Mariano]

Originally posted by EHM-1703 Philip
Franz, we have two main problems with the PSS Airbuses... The landing light issue is one unfortunately at this time there is no cure due to the code being written in to the panel not the CFG file.

Maybe the walk around is to have Flogger or PP disable that penalty if the selected airplane is a PSS Airbus. I know, it takes a little realism off, but it would also keep many people from getting pissed off at the system it would seem. To me this is the easiest solution.


I would like to say, on the PP topic, that before joining EHM I was flying regularly with FSPassengers, so was kinda used to follow checklists and procedures. I kinda like it, feels like i'm a real pilot, and thats why i'm here!
So far I had 2 PP flights and the only thing I would change results from my last flight. I was on initial and doing a perfect flight, I mistakenly pressed the L key which turned off all lights. 230 penalty points. Oh well. Changed my assignment for all lights to CTRL SHIFT L. Wont happen again :p

I rather enjoy PP and it is a way to challenge yourself. I hope they continue to develop it to fix whichever bugs it may have. And I want to congratulate all who thought about it and finally programmed it

[EHM-2089 Vincent]

Thanks Hector for the mention of FS Flight Keeper. I will have a look at it. And since you mentioned is more real and analytical than FP, I would really like to get hold of FSFK, atleast the trial version of it and get a feel of the same.

I have always maintained that a crash is not the end of flying, its a mistake in the procedures that was done because of which the crash occured, or some aircraft fault, what we need to do is learn that it does not reoccur.

Just today when flying a B1900 using FP, I had a Right Engine Flameout. If I push my throttles too much then my plane would go right, so i got to keep the power enough to keep my plane flying, and enough rudder at the same time to counter the turn caused by the only (left) propellor. I did realize that I could end up crashing and killing everyone after a 7000 ft descend, but careful use of throttle and flaps, helped me make a good landing in line with the runway. It will take time before perfection can be reached. PP should help you be a better pilot. thats what I believe.

[EHM-2089 Vincent]

I am sorry for another post, but I forgot to mention something in the post.

PP is a software written, and hence if somethings don't work properly its a kind of bug with the same. So if we get a penalty or crash, it may not be totally due to our fault. The future versions I am sure will rectify if any faults are brought to notice!! Thats how the software field works.

One simple bug I had when flying around the LSZH area was that, all airports had the starting code letter with L. So usually near landing, on listening to the in built ATC, I would often play with my GPS and punch in the direct-to option with the airport I am landing say LSZH. When I did this, it was often below FL100, and the moment I pressed L.. the light would go off, giving me a penalty. Now is this a bug with the software, no, I should have ensure that I selected my GPS before punching in L. L is read by PP because its in Focus, rather than the GPS window. Now next time I should be careful when punching the letter, and ensure that I am in the right window. So PP cannot be blamed for this....

[EHM-1703 Philip]

I am not going to stick my neck on the line and say that PP is bug free, but we have fixed the bugs we are aware of. Admittedly problems exist caused by other 3rd party add ons such as IVAO winds and PSS landing lights etc. but we are limited to what we can do with other peoples software that we have absolutely no control over. I contacted PSS about their landing light issue and the response I got was that PSS had coded the lights in a way that FS2004 did not see them as on or off as they wanted control over separate sets of lights like taxi lights and nose wheel lights etc. therefore they did not use the Flight Sim landing light system at all.

[EHM-2089 Vincent]

Hi Philip,

By making the statement about the problems in PP I as a software developer would like to clarify that I am not blaming the software. I was just answering to the query that there can be flaws and as mentioned I did not look at the landing light issue caused to me as a bug, but my carelessness and then getting the penalty on me.

I did not intend to hurt anyone with my statement. I love PP as a software that makes my flight more realistic and I enjoy getting those penalties, trust me, I enjoy getting penalties, because it helps me learn and not make the mistake the next time.

[EHM-2192 Chris]

Hi
I have flown quite a few pro-pilot flights and enjoy the challenge of completing a perfect flight. However, in terms of motivating people, I do think the balance of the scoring system could be improved. You seem to be heavily penalised for making mistakes, but only get a small reward for the perfect flight (about 10 points?). I think the emphasis should be on positive reinforcement and pilots should receive much bigger rewards for perfect flights.

[EHM-0948 Bruno]

Hi Chris,

Welcome to the Forum! Feel free to comment and ask everything that you would like to.

Regarding to the FAC, this is the 2nd version, and trully it needs to be improved in my humble opinion.
We, at the MT and on the Community, made a very active discussion about this new FAC version some time ago, and next year I will propose to the MT team to do a 3rd version.

So, what I suggest is to continu doing flights, because when we (if we) made a new FAC version, it will import all the historical data that you already have.

Regads and welcome again.