motivation

[EHM-0948 Bruno]

Hi,

We are noticing that some pilots are starting to get not motivated to fly on ProPilot due to many crashes. They are feeling that they are not up the challenge.

We want to remember that Propilot it a place to learn too. That means that you can use your respective Hub Manager to help you if you have any doubts, OR, you can talk to Murray Crane or Cyriel Lamerigts for scheduling some pratical lessons.

Also, ProPilot is a place where you need to have fun and the idea is to get flying better everyday.

I will give some suggestions:
- Never fly an airplane that you don't know well. First fly on the normal mode, and when you think that you are experiencied on that airplane go to ProPilot.

- You crash. Ok, don't start loosing your motivation. Learn from it, talk to Murray Crane, Cyriel, your Hub Manager, me, whatever, but learn from it.

- When you start a propilot flight, position your airplane on the airport before pressing the flight logger PROPILOT button. So, if you crash before that, the system will not consider it.

- When you are starting to taxi, use the Ctrl+S to take a sky view of what's going on around you. So, you don't have another airplane coming in your direction.

- Don't understimate your airplane! Your airplane can always surprise you whenever you less expect. On approaches or take off be always ready to turn off your AutoPilot button in order to manually correct situation that is going out of control.

So, in conclusion, all of us need to make an effort in order to try not to crash so many airplanes, but this doesn't mean that you need to stop flying.
If you one day you think of stop flying because you are crashing too many airplanes, then you are thinking wrong ...

Kindly Regards,

[EHM-1703 Philip]

Hi Bruno,

Thanks for the encouraging words, I know the feeling! I crashed number 4 today in 65 flights. (well 69 if you include the crashes)

I must admit, I need to refocus on Propilot. I was watching the HUB stats too much and not my own. I was flying for the HUB and not for myself.

I have 3 days to reflect now during my suspension although I must admit, I can't figure out why my Aircraft did what it did, but thats a subject for another topic I think!

[EHM-1947 Miko]

please allow me to explain why I will keep on being an enthusiastic EuroHarmony pilot - but on normal mode and no longer using PP.

Yesterday I did my first PP Flight. I flew it with a Pilatus PC-12, I dare to say that I am quite familiar with this plane.

However there was a strange behaviour before and after disconnecting the autopilot - there must be a reason caused by the PP-Software - I think I am quite experienced and as long as I fly online I NEVER crashed - in fact it is sort of embarrassing for me to crash at normal conditions at EDDH , one of my favourite destinations.  

I landed with a forward pitch of at least  (-!) 20 degrees that means I looked into the ground while trying to force the bird sink the last feet. My speed and configuration was absolutely allright on the final as you can see in the log.

This was an absolutely unlogical flight model the Pilatus performed the last seconds before the crash.

Off cause I am not sure what failures the PP-Software produces - But as it is written in the documentation there are indeed failures produced by the PP to test the pilots skills.

Otherwise I cannot explain the reasons why so many PP-flights end by crashes.

It seems to be part of the game to impact into mother earth quite often and to be "punished" for mistakes the pilot ist not responsible for.

I wish all collegues who like that game much fun but I myself do not like that kind of competition even after the first attempt.

I hate "stress" while simming, I do not want to join a sort of rivalry - and I don't think that the methods of measuring the Pilots skills are objective - there is a essential difference if you fly online or not, if you approach easy or difficult airports, have a bad controller or none, fly an easy plane or a difficult one, and have good or bad luck in dependence on the mood of the PP-Failure-Engine.

Please excuse my critical comment - but it's the way I see it.

[EHM-1883 Matt]

well, as far as I'm concerned, I don't think that ProPilot is a fun experience the way Bruno says it is, but that doesn't mean that I think it's bad...

Propilot is not fun. It is hard, it is stressful occasianally, and it can be a right pain, but the whole point of propilot is, is that it's a challenge. Sometimes, I feel like I would like to be marked, because it gives you a chance to see how good a pilot you may be, and it makes me feel very good about myself if I get 0. I get the impression that alot of people get stressed if they get a penalty, and there was plenty of times in the UNHCR when I got annoyed because I got a penalty, and didn't even realize what I did wrong, so if you're descending, and you overspeed, it's your fault, for not being aware of what's going on.

non-PP is what you need to relax. If you fly with propilot when you want to relax, it's like having to multiply with a headache. Don't do it. I only fly ProPilot if I feel up to it, otherwise, I fly non-PP.

as for these random mistakes, I have never even had one before, but I have crashed a plane on PP, but (I don't mean to sound offensive in anyway) I don't think about the crash. So what? I've now got a high FAC. Doesn't neccessarily mean I'm a bad pilot. I've done 71 successful flights, and one event I happen to break down while using PP. Does it really matter?

Although, I have experienced bugs within propilot, like I got a rating of 1100, yet I really should have gotten 110 and I don't know what happened there but when you fly PP, I think you need to expect that things may go wrong, and you need to be in a mood to not get mad at it.

[EHM-1821 Javier]

In my opinion, i think that the stress PP gives makes me want to achieve a better PP score, and witht he top 10 table, it motivates me even more! I have had only 2 crasheds so far, both my fault, including spoilers out all the way to landing:%:s

Different people have different opinions, and if you have the same opinion as Bruno or me, it does make you feel good when you know you have done a good flight!;D

[EHM-0948 Bruno]

Hi Miko,

The ProPilot system doesn't change anything on your flight simulator.
We don't set variables on the game. We just obtain the variables from it. So, it's impossible that the ProPilot system can do anything on your system described by the behaviour that you talk.

Giving some answers to what you said:

"It seems to be part of the game to impact into mother earth quite often and to be "punished" for mistakes the pilot ist not responsible for."
Well, fortunately you are . As I told we don't change or input anything on the system, so the pilot is totally responsible for all the flight manouvers.


"I hate "stress" while simming, I do not want to join a sort of rivalry [...]"
Well, the ProPilot system is not designed to cause stress. It was made so you can have fly more professionaly and on a more close to reality game ... Logically there is a little anxiety connected to it, but the day you start to gain stress, you start to hate it.

We respect all the pilots decisions. But in this matter I personally think you are over-reacting a bit and I should recomend you to do more flights on it until you can see if you really like it or not ...

I already crashed a bunch of airplanes and I still, if the flight permits it, always fly on ProPilot.

Safe flights,

[EHM-1998 Steven]

As a newbie to EHM and PP, I have to admit some frustration with flying on PP. However, my frustration is with my abilities and not the PP system. To be totally honest, I though I was a better pilot on FS9 than I am. Every penalty that I have received has been my fault. I think the most important thing I have learned is that even with the difficulty set fully high, FS9 is very forgiving. All this time, I thought my landing were good if it didn't register as a crash. With PP, I have found different. My FAC is about 179 right now and that higher number is mostly due to hard landings and one crash. My crash was on the recent event from a runway that truly stretched the abilities of the aircraft and myself so I don't dwell on the fact that I crashed. I do take pride in the fact that I was able to go back and successfully depart from the runway without crashing, though.

All that said, I agree that flying on PP is not relaxing but I don't think that was the intent. I do enjoy flying on PP because I think it is improving my flying skills and it is a challenge. I have learned that if I am distracted, stressed, or medicated:] that I do not need to fly PP as I will make mistakes. If I am looking for a fun flight with little challenge and no stress, I just fly in normal mode and enjoy myself. The most important thing at an VA is to have fun and fly! If you are doing something that you find not to be fun, don't do it or you will evnetually quit flying here and I don't think anyone wants to see that happen.

So do what makes you happy as that is the whole point of being here.

[EHM-0948 Bruno]

Well, Steven, you're better than me that has a FAC of about 290 ...

And I underline your words for all of us .. Definately they describe the way we need to feel the ProPilot better than my post .

Regards,

[EHM-1947 Miko]

Originally posted by EHM-0948 Bruno
Hi Miko,

The ProPilot system doesn't change anything on your flight simulator.
We don't set variables on the game. We just obtain the variables from it. So, it's impossible that the ProPilot system can do anything on your system described by the behaviour that you talk.

 

You know the PP-Software and I don't doubt what you are writing - but it seems a little bit contradictory that PP obviously engages the crash detection (on the final or during the whole flight?) - and disengages it afterwards - is that no change?

O.K. you say it is not true what is written in the PP documentation that there are further fault surprises done by PP except the switching on of the crash detection. I did not know that.

It is allready frequently discussed and I only repeat whats allready said: If you fly online on IVAO or VATSIM you cannot do this without switching off the crash detection.

MSFS itself, several sceneries and the complexity of the addon aircraft are too unreliable to allow a crash detection. You can crash with unvisible objects, other planes right at the moment you connect and position yourself at a gate.

Sure there are pilot mistakes to that can cause a crash - but a certain inaccuracy must be tolerated if you do the job of two pilots in front of your computer without being punished.

I can understand why others fancy PP - Matt described it very well - perhaps I have to improve my ability not to be offended so quickly before I make a second approach to PP

Nice Sunday especially to those who are lucky to be at the IFC in Birmingham today.

[EHM-1883 Matt]

I thought that PP switches on the crash detection after takeoff??

[EHM-1570 Bruce]

Having read the previous inputs to this item, I feel that I have to say a little. I have flown over 1000 Hrs in ProPilot and almost all my flights are in ProPilot, and I have to say that I do not get stressed in any way. I believe that ProPilot has made me a far better pilot in all aspects of flightsim. At the beginning of ProPilot I crashed aircraft, some my fault and some not, but over time I have developed my own checklist and stick to it, this has kept me clear of any penalties. Flying in ProPilot is really no different to flying in normal mode, the only real difference is that you have to fly in accordance with certain procedures. I would say to anyone to persevere and it will improve your skills, practice landings, takeoffs and approaches in new aircraft before flying them in ProPilot, this will pay dividends.

[EHM-0948 Bruno]

Originally posted by EHM-1883 Matt
I thought that PP switches on the crash detection after takeoff??

Hi,

True indeed. You can switch of the "crash agains other airplanes" and leave it turned off because on take off, the Flight Logger turns it on.

Miko, what I said was related to your airplane behaviour. I mean, the Flight Logger doesn't change anything on the airplane or instruments. But yes, it turns on the crash into buildings option if I am not mistaken. So, I apologize if I was not clear on what I said before.

EDIT: And one more thing, you don't need to fly on an online network to do a PRoPilot flight. You just need to use the Flight Logger.

Regards,

[EHM-0654 Murray]

Originally posted by EHM-0948 Bruno
...EDIT: And one more thing, you don't need to fly on an online network to do a PRoPilot flight. You just need to use the Flight Logger.

You do need to have a working Internet connection when flying PP, so that the Flight Logger can send your ACARS data back to our servers, but you don't have to be flying "online" (IVAO/VATSIM/whatever...)

[EHM-1947 Miko]

Originally posted by EHM-0948 Bruno

Originally posted by EHM-1883 Matt
I thought that PP switches on the crash detection after takeoff??

...

EDIT: And one more thing, you don't need to fly on an online network to do a PRoPilot flight. You just need to use the Flight Logger.

Regards,

Yes I know Bruno - but it sounds weired but flying offline is like flying in an artificial environment for me - no real human beings - I am online addict I admit

Maybe my problem occurred because I used the Flight1 Payware PC-12?

Now I know more about PP and perhaps I make another try some day.

Cheers,

[EHM-0948 Bruno]

Originally posted by EHM-0654 Murray

Originally posted by EHM-0948 Bruno
...EDIT: And one more thing, you don't need to fly on an online network to do a PRoPilot flight. You just need to use the Flight Logger.

You do need to have a working Internet connection when flying PP, so that the Flight Logger can send your ACARS data back to our servers, but you don't have to be flying "online" (IVAO/VATSIM/whatever...)

Even better than my explanation Murray!

[EHM-1001 Robert]

Hehe, it is funny I mean, I do not fly quite often online because the online software makes my whole system unstable, and in half of the occasions I must reset the PC

But it never happens with PP. It really is not frustrating. It is a real challenge, because you cannot overstress the plane in any way, and you must follow some rules: like in real life. I am sure PP teaches you more.

Also if I think about my PP score I remember every penalty points and I remember too, that I well deserved them. Flying offline is much safer, because at least nobody step to your neck when connecting to the network Handy little AI tools keep the other aircrafts away of you...this means crashing is only in your hand.

[EHM-1695 Hélio]

:s Someone can tell me if the problem with landing lights on PSS a320 and PP it's already solved. That was the reason that took me to abandon PP!

[EHM-1703 Philip]

Sorry Helio, it is not....

The reason it occurs is because PSS did not use the standard FS9 Landing light system when they programed the panel. They programmed it so that Landing Lights would autmoatically turn off when the nose gear is retracted but wing lights remained on until the switch was turned off. This is unrealistic as most aircraft activate Landing lights well before this time but the system does not turn on the nose gear lights until the carriage is deployed. I have asked PSS if there is a work around but it is coded in to the panel and they will not be altering it.

[EHM-1001 Robert]

Maybe we can alter a bit that panel For example I added a Beacon switch to my PMDG 747

[EHM-1749 Hector]

Short and plain: ProPilot is the closest thing to the real flight. It is true that, at least for me, it is a bit stressing, but it is just because we always want to do things right. It is human nature. ProPilot has added a new dimension to flight simulation.
Personally, I think that 99% of being succesful with PP is planning your flight in advance: from A to Z. We cannot wait until 40NM to destination to start thinking on the approach procedures, altitudes, etc. When we do this, we then forget about flying and problems start: forget the 250 kts below 10000, forget to turn the landing lights on below 10000, and many other tiny things that can end up in penalties.
The bigger and complex the airplane is, there are more details we need to look at specially with taking off and landing. If you don't have a copilot, things can really get nasty sometimes.
My "copilot" takes care of raising and lowering the gear, deploys the reversers and the spoilers at landing, advises me when is the proper time to start descending and avoid the much hated " 4500 fpm penalty", etc. These are very simple and easy to install instrument gauges developed by Glenn Copeland. Visit AVSIM and find out more about.
But one thing is for sure: if you are in a hurry or if you only want to have a soft and nice ride, then I recommend that you don't  activate ProPilot.
ProPilot is a disease that if you don't get it, you will not enjoy the fun of flying.
Cheers,
Hector Partidas
EHM-1749

[EHM-1714 João]

Hello!

I use PorPilot while flying for euroHarmony and I must say it's a great little tool.
Even so, I've already crashed 2 planes since sometimes I have to leave home in a hurry and the 2 extra hours of flying fuel I usually carry come to an end. :] Oh well, not exactly bad flying but it has killed many virtual passengers that's for sure! :]
But, although I enjoy flying with ProPilot, I find that some rules should be revised such as:
Overspeed - Sometimes when flying online on IVAO or VATSIM the winds change too rapidly and with them so does the indicated air speed. My suggestion is that you apply a higher margin until over speed is registered.
Vertical Speed - Same problem as before... winds change rapidly.
Other then that, perfect!
Maybe a good way to incentive pilots is by instead of having a maximum FAC of 0, pilots start to get positive evaluations after, for example, a "kiss" landing.

Cheers from the Azores islands,
João Couto Resendes

[EHM-1714 João]

Just another thing.
Landing lights... It should not be mandatory to have them on below F100.
250Kias below F100 should also not be mandatory.

In my opinion, things like this in reality are very flexible and so they should not be mandatory when flying virtualy.

That's it. Thanks

[EHM-1671 Ben]

Originally posted by EHM-1714 João
Just another thing.
Landing lights... It should not be mandatory to have them on below F100.
250Kias below F100 should also not be mandatory.

In my opinion, things like this in reality are very flexible and so they should not be mandatory when flying virtualy.

Really? I always thought they were quite important, especially in real world aviation!:%

[EHM-1714 João]

Originally posted by EHM-1671 Ben

Originally posted by EHM-1714 João
Just another thing.
Landing lights... It should not be mandatory to have them on below F100.
250Kias below F100 should also not be mandatory.

In my opinion, things like this in reality are very flexible and so they should not be mandatory when flying virtualy.

Really? I always thought they were quite important, especially in real world aviation!:%

I didn't say they were not important. I said they are flexible. The 250Kias restriction for example: you as pilot can request to fly faster then that, and the same request can be made by an air traffic controller to improve the traffic flow.
Now, for the landing lights... Well, they should be used but there are situations in which they are simple not needed such as during an approach in fog. The use of the landing lights during one of those approaches would actually be harmful for the pilots since it produces strong light effects inside the cockpit, specially at night.

Regards,
João

[EHM-0250 Magnus]

On noes.... I crashed too today. I KNEW I shouldn't trust that maintainance guy at ESNN. He looked suspicious...

Oh well, time to fly some non-ProPilot flight to collect more aircraft and countries!