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IVAO vs VATSIM: controller habits

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EHM-1001 Robert:
Hi folks,

the main point I open this thread is to place 2+1 technical questions regarding online flying. The background of the story, is I started to fly on VATSIM years ago, and now I fly only on IVAO, and experienced different habits of controllers on the network, and it confuse a little why the IVAO guys do that as they do...

Q1: STAR clearance. I think I never got any STAR clearance on IVAO so far. On VATSIM, as I was flying inside the last CTR area on my way, the controller always reported me the runway I can expect, and he gave me clearance for a given STAR, so I could prepare and program my autopilot miles before the T/D point, so I had enough time to prepare. On IVAO, the CTR positions tell me the runway in use, and that is all. I can never know where they will lead me via vectors.

Q+1: ...the above situation is very confusing, when I got a holding command over an intersection that is not on my "possible" STAR, and I do not have chart for that intersection, neither have enough time to change my FMC program.

What should I do? Ask for a clearance, or put the desired STAR into my flightplan ? It seems the CTR positions would like to get rid of the approaching planes by vectors, and then they all did their jobs. (Please understand, this is my personal general experience, not made on yesterday fly-in ;) )

Q2: Cruise flight. On VATSIM, when I entered into a new CTR area on my way, the controller always said "proceed as filed" if there was not any problem ahead of me. On IVAO, in the most cases I got an intersection to follow on a direct heading. And in the most cases, that intersection is not on my way, or it is somewhere at the border of the CTR area, and I have to look for it in the charts to know, where the hell is that intersection he wants me to fly inbound. That is very confusing to me.

Any ideas, comments ?

EHM-1883 Matt:
I see that you were inspired by our conversation!

EHM-1759 Ricardo:
Hi Robert :)

Well, after read your post I have some answers, I hope :) Let's see.

Q1. We don't use STAR's because most of pilots don't use charts or don't have a FMC, or don't use FSNav, neither something like that. So, we prefer to vectorize to not lose so much time explaining what is a STAR, what is a chart, and so on... Unfortunately I never see Division Training Departments online (where I am controlling) to help newbie pilots :[ So, we (controllers) have to spend some time explaining and helping... doing work that doesn't belong us.

SO, PLEASE PILOTS USE CHARTS EVERYTIME, HERE YOU HAVE SOME LINKS (This message is not for you Robert, obviously :] ):
- http://www.ivao.aero/flightops/
- http://www.navdata.at/php/charts/charts.php
- http://usa-w.vatsim.net/charts/


Q2. Ok, on IVAO we do this because you can "win" fuel and time and we (controllers) can expedite traffic. Imagine you enter in LPPC (Portuguese Airspace) from the north to LPMA (Madeira - Funchal), your route will be, for example, EGLL SID.... XERES ASMAR NARTA GALPA LIDRO STAR LPMA. This route will do an "S", so I tell you: "EHM1001, radar contact, proceed direct LIDRO". You win time, I can align and calculate separations easier and we all can be happy :D
On the other hand I never give a waypoint which doesn't belongs to aircraft's route. It doesn't make sense. This is the reason we have a tool, "Show Route",  on our radar to show us the selected aircraft's route and help us to expedite traffic :)

Did I answer your questions?

If you have any doubt about my explanation please post again :)

Best regards Robert :)

EHM-1947 Miko:
As a "polygam" pilot who goes both networks (regarding to the control positions online along my route) I made the same experience as Roberto did. The VATSIM Conrolling philosophy is more formal - if it is more realistic - I don't know (I'm no expert).

On IVAO I never print out STARs (not to talk about transitions) because you get allways vectors at the approach.

I don't mind cause it may be more demanding for me to have some more work (finding waypoints, changing the route and so on)  instead of computing the whole flight at the start and then press the APP-Button at the end.

The vectored approach is the real "social part" of the whole game - especially in very busy airspace (Yes I will not forget the Fly In LPPT Approach on Friday ;-)) - and the more unexpected it is the more interesting, isn' it?

The only thing I would desire to be changed is Roberts Q2 thing:

If I fly a freeware/non-FMC-Aircraft and I have to programm a default FS-Flightplan, and you get a "Direct to" while cruising through a XXXX_CTR, you must leave your flightplan and continue may be by using the HDG or LOC/NAV Modus.

OK - I found a solution - I use create a new flightplan using FS Commander and load it again into the GPS - that works - so the prob is not that big.

So what is my intention to write this? Shall something be changed ore not? I don't know - let me say it like Andy in Little Britain: I want that - I dont like it - I want that I dont like it ;D

EHM-1798 Conrad:
Well, basicly what i do is as follows:

Assign them a STAR & Arrival Runway, if they dont have a clue what they are doing, then i will vector them to the arrival and even perhaps provide a link for the pilot if he doesnt know what it is (on a good day :P)

second question i agree with Ricardo

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