re:

[EHM-1800 Franz]

Hello to all pilots!
Here my experiences of yesterdays "fly in"
If we are again a numerous group of pilots (I hope so) I suggest to organize that we connect in different groups - maby 5 and after 20 minutes the next ones, or .....?  It was confusing for pilots and the controllers as they all wanted at the same time their clearences for Flightplans, push & start, to taxi, ......As I got after 1/2 hour after connecting my taxi-clearence, some other pilot crashed in my aircraft (maby he had a different scenery or was it the lack of discipline, .....?)  As I use "FS Passengers" it ended with a CTD and I had to start again my PSS Airbus with cold & dark - a procedere which needs again about 20 min till ready for taxi. I´m not sure if the contoller really knew  my gate, becouse his taxi clearence sent me via exits in the opposite directions - I had to be very carefully to avoid collisions with other aircrafts, which were positiond on places, where normally no aircraft should be for bording.  At least, after more than one hour I was airborne. After passing IFL 6000 ft,  there was no chance to get any clearence for climbing higher, the controller was to busy. I managed it myself and riching already FL 200 I got the clearence for FL 120 and was handed over to the center - o.k. - no problem.  Next was the ocean clearence - I think very new for the most of us - also for me. And this needed time for corrections, also because our computertime was obviously different!   Reaching the TOD and my FMC requested to decend for reaching DOKAS at FL 140,  it was impossible to contact  the (good) controller because as you could hear he was to  busy, permanent you could hear "Euroharmony 123....., position report, read back ........etc.... and if I tried it, some disciplinless pilots interrupted the dialog with their reports. Already passing FL 180 I was asked for my intention and was handed over to Sta.Maria APPR.  Passing DOKAS, I heared on my TCAS suddenly "Traffic, Traffic" warning and my aircraft was hidden again from an plane from behind - "aircraft lost, passengers and crew dead" and my Airbus cold & dark at the apron in Lisboa.  As it was already after 01 o`clock local time I resignated and ended for the day.
What could we do for the next events? To avoid that "crowded situations" - like at the event befor in LPMA Madeira where the small airport was absolutly overcrowded with "heavys", Jumbos, .....
Could we register the day before and organize slots for the event ? - and if we are a bigger group, maby we could divide - that one part flys  east - west, the other group west - east .....? Or one group starts at 19:00 the next at 20:00 h So it could also be easier for the airport - controllers, becouse if 7, 8 or more planes are in approach it´s  not so funny to fly  halfe an hour or more a holding - happend last week in Nice !
Maby some of you have suggestions ?
With a lot of greetings

Franz

[EHM-1358 Tim]

You could do what they did at the Euro 2004 (I think it was!), were you had to book your departure time and arrival time on the webiste.

[EHM-1001 Robert]

I am terribly sorry Franz, it was me who hit you. I apologize. :s

You know, the CTR guy kept me on FL200 and 270kts, while you were ahead of me around 20nm. He also asked me to help him report your position on TCAS for separation, because he could not contact you sometimes.

Then he passed me to APP and cleared to FL140 as we reach DOKAS. I was on manual control and when I pushed VNAV again, the plane suddenly started to descend at -3500fpm and accelerated to 320kts. I realized that I am closing on you fastly, but it was too late to avoid the crash. The IVAP and chat window and FMC were all open and hide the cockpit window. When I moved them you suddenly pop-up ahead of me, and I reached you from behind :S, and TCAS shouted TRAFFIC-TRAFFIC ! I started a faster descend, but it seems I was not fast enough.

Well, as I remember that was the period when APP does not hear you at all, and he started to contact with the other birds. Franz, your voice voice was terribly low !!! I could hear you only when switched to the Eye and the engine noise gone... you should do something with your MIC. In XP Sound settings there is an option called Mic Boost, you need to enable that, I think ! Please, do not ask why, but I had to turn it on again some days ago. I mean I used TeamSpeak since ages without that option. Then, since some days, I had to turn it on again because Matt reported he could not hear me well on TeamSpeak :s

About the crowded space, I think it is not real. I mean LPAZ is so small airport that such traffic is unreal I am sure that real oceanic channels are not so busy. Maybe, because the NATs use longer legs, so you do not need to report so frequent.

I think, a registration is a good idea, but to fly longer distances and bigger airports / not fly anymore over the ocean is another choice

[EHM-1617 Iain]

Oceanic channels are very busy, but maybe not that busy:P. The way they get around it is with SELCAL and a few other procedures. This stops the crew having to constantly monitor a busy frequency for eight straight hours. Before the controller sends the crew a message, he will send their SELCAL code. This makes a chime in the cockpit, the crew put on the headsets and transmit a reply (the message can be on loadspeaker).

On the fly-in, we requested clearance by voice on the same frequency that the controller was using. In real life, it's a different controller on a different frequency. Also, many clearance requests are done via ACARS datalink and then only need to be confirmed via voice with the clearance (planning) controller. The remainder use voice on the separate frequency, which relieves the main controller of a lot of work.

Remember the controller has no radar. He needs to get position reports otherwise he won't know where you are.

Say you need to make a position report. Instead of launching straight into it, you say "Harmony Six One Seven, position." Then you wait. The controller has heard you. He may have some more important things to do in the meantime, like climbing or descending other aircraft. He also needs to find a bit of paper (or a computer keyboard in real life). When he tells you to go ahead, you make a standard internation position report, nothing more, nothing less.

For example: "Position, Harmony Six One Seven, Three Eight North One Seven West at Two One Four Seven, Flight Level Three Six Zero, Mach decimal Eight One, estimating Three Eight North Two Zero West at Two One Five Nine, then DOKAS."

There is a lot to say here. Write it down on a bit of paper before you start to speak which cuts out all the "uh..." and "erm..."!:]

If you miss anything, the controller has to ask you for it, which obviously wastes time. The controller doesn't need anything more. Then the controller reads it back, you say "Readback correct, Harmony Six One Seven" and it's all done.:8

At least we all know now

[EHM-0948 Bruno]

Hi,

Let me just correct a little from my humble knowledge, that you still need to say the next waypoint.

In your case: "Position, Harmony Six One Seven, Three Eight North One Seven West at Two One Four Seven, Flight Level Three Six Zero, Mach decimal Eight One, estimating Three Eight North Two Zero West at Two One Five Nine, then DOKAS at Two One Five Eight".

The controller needs, if possible, the last passed position (and time), and the two next positions.

Regards,

[EHM-0948 Bruno]

Hi,

Regarding the time slot registration as Franz and Robert said, I must say that we are actually developing a fly in registration system that will actually have a time slot parameter for you guys to choose.

It will show the possible time slots that you can get for the system.

Regards,

[EHM-1001 Robert]

Hmmm, as I know you do not need to tell ETA for both waypoints ahead of you, only the closer one, as Iain said. :s

[EHM-1617 Iain]

According to all the sources I have, you only give the estimate for the next waypoint, not the following one.

[EHM-1703 Philip]

This is why I have kept pretty quiet in this topic.

Flying Oceanic or NATs by the rules is easy....... If you know what the rules are or the Controller doesn't have a different rule book to you! I must say, I found the IVAO "How To" guide very confusing as it was not easy to understand and jumped from point to point without clear explanation.

So in the meantime I'll stick to regional/continental flights and leave the complicated stuff to those who care enough to get passionate about it.



Cheers