Takeoff speeds question

[EHM-1838 Andrew]

When i am flying say the airbus 310 320 or any medium sized aircraft,when i am lined up i have everything set up hdg,alt,autothrottle armed etc i then fire up the engines to about 94% release brakes and of i go.I rotate at about 140 to 150 depending on plane pitch up to about 20 degrees  raise gear and at about 190 i retract flaps i reduce to about 10 degrees let the speed climb to about 210 and then activate the autothrottle which is set at 250 kts i then climb at about 1500 to 1800 fpm BUT i am still getting a 4500fpm penalty.Yesterday i tried much slower speeds(as given by a real world 737 pilot) ie 156kts at takeoff try to maintain that drop nose to 10 degrees again let the aircraft pick up speed and then hit autothrottle(this time set at 210 kts and climb as befrore 1500 to 1800 and i STILL  get the same error.
Can somebody help with my takeoff because this fault thing is REALLY begiinning to spoil my flights.
PS i have now just crashed on takeoff because again i was trying different speeds wasnt concentrating and stalled.
Please fellas i need help.
cheers Andy

[EHM-1651 Christian]

http://www.avsim.com/pss/manuals/a320man_part3.zip

This is the performance charts and tables for the A320 from PSS check it out and see if it can help you out a little bit on the road.

[EHM-1465 Dominic]

Andy,

I don't know exactly how the ProPilot penalty engine works but I'm pretty sure the penalty will register if your climb rate is too high for even a second. Your post seems to indicate a well thought through and planned take-off and climb but it may well be that the aircraft you are using is powerful enough to give you a climb rate above 4500 fpm at full thrust straight after you leave the runway.

In the C-17 on the ProPilot event what I have done is apply full power until take-off, rotate to about 15 degrees and once airborne I reduce the throttles to climb power almost immediately as otherwise the climb rate goes tearing up towards 4500 within seconds (especially at low weight).

So I'd suggest you try reducing power immediately after take-off and before activating autothrottle and see if this works...

Good luck!

[EHM-1838 Andrew]

Thanks Dominic
I am becoming obsessed with this.But your post has made me realise i am not watching my gauges,presumably you must be able to see your rate of climb.Trouble is i have now just crashed(a310 )whilst trying different takeoff speeds i will have to wait till i can try again.
Thanks for bearing with me and all my posting;D
cheers   Andy

[EHM-1651 Christian]

Test it out offline then try it in Pro Pilot when you are shure you can pull it off,
But you should always monitor the Vertical speed indicator VSI closely on takeoff, as this is the gauge that tells you if you have psoitive rate of climb.

[EHM-1838 Andrew]

Your certainly right Christian
The problem with FS is that its to easy fly the aircraft with just a basic knowledge of instrumentation,but when you use PP it starts to reveal your shortcomings.But its good though just a little more knowledge gained.PS thanks for PSS stuff if i can work any of that out i will apply to British Airways for a pilots job.
Cheers Andy;D

[EHM-1617 Iain]

Try an ICAO B noise abatement procedure, reducing throttle at 1000 AGL. In essence, it goes like this.

Set takeoff power (around 92-94% N1), or around 89% N1 if using reduced takeoff thrust (recomended if light load, long runway, cold weather - use it whenever possible).

At Vr, rotate at 3* per second to 8* until airborne, and then further rotate to an attitude that allows you to maintain a speed of V2+10 (up to V2+20 if lightly loaded). Usually there will be no pause at 8* as the aircraft becomes airborne straight away. The final rotation attitude will usually be in the region of 18*, plus or minus 3*. Get the gear up when you have two indications of positive climb (altimeter and VSI). Maintain V2+10-20 by adjusting pitch as necessary.

At 1000 feet AGL, reduce the thrust to climb thrust (around 90* N1 - if takeoff was performed with reduced thrust, you won't have to do much) and simultaneously lower the nose to 10*-12*. Maintain this pitch. When speed hits the flap maneuvering speed of the setting you are using and you are accelerating, retract the flaps to the nextstage.

e.g. flaps currently set to 5, accelerating through the flaps 5 maneuvering speed (about 185k), retract the flaps to 1.

e.g.2 flaps currently set to 1, accelerating through the flaps 1 maneuvering speed (about 200k), retract the flaps.

Maintain the pitch until the speed hits 220k. On reaching this speed maintain it. The aircraft will be 'clean' in a stable climb at 220k. You can then engage autopilot/autothrottle, accelerate to 250k (monitoring the autothrottle) and you're good to go! Meanwhile, don't forget to fly the departure route. Hopefully this should stop you getting penalties in medium sized jets.

[EHM-1838 Andrew]

Thanks Iain
I will TRY to put your theory into practice.Its probably not a bad thing that i crashed as i can now practice my takeoffs in my other much neglected VA(since discovering logger and PP).
Again thanks for taking the time.
cheers Andy
Blimey no spelling mistakes .
Even THATS improving:P

[EHM-2089 Vincent]

Hi,

this thread is really useful, thanks for the host of info posted here. I am still flying the smaller ones, on Class 1, just got promoted to fly Class 2, so will surely be bumping into these problem shortly ... I hope this forum thread, will help me reduce on that penalty.

[EHM-2029 Sotiris]

Vincent,

welcome to our community. Everyone here tries to help each other
Just remember, don't fly pro-pilot to learn a plane. You'll quickly gather more penalty points than you care to count (I'm talking from hard experience).
Use FLLogger as it helps reveal mistakes but only fly ProPilot with a bird that you know and feel comfortable with.

All the best

[EHM-2089 Vincent]

Thanks Sotiris, Infact I had done 4 flights with Flight Logger, and earlier had used the demo version of FS Passengers. I thought I had good control till I crashed the last plane today!!!!

Sad that I crashed, and that when online on PP. I should have not played it on PP but the previous 4 flights had added to my confidence. dont know what happened on this one.