Overspeed

[EHM-1714 João]

I keep getting the overspeed penalty while flying online on IVAO with ProPilot. It's really getting on my nerves since there's nothing I can do! IVAO's weather update is the only one to blame for this... Is there any way to change the way ProPilot understands this situation?

[EHM-0948 Bruno]

Hi João,

Errr, it's very strange. Even today I made 8h trip flight on IVAO and it didn't happened with me ... Still I have activeSky 6 ... maybe it's because of that ...

Well, actually we can't do nothing mate ... The overspeed is given when your flight simulator tells via FSUIPC that you got an overspeed situation. So, our hands are tied here ...

[EHM-1714 João]

Originally posted by EHM-0948 Bruno
Hi João,

Errr, it's very strange. Even today I made 8h trip flight on IVAO and it didn't happened with me ... Still I have activeSky 6 ... maybe it's because of that ...

Well, actually we can't do nothing mate ... The overspeed is given when your flight simulator tells via FSUIPC that you got an overspeed situation. So, our hands are tied here ...

Olá Bruno,

Do you have any suggestion? I've already got wind smoothing activated on IVAP...

Cheers,
João

[EHM-1651 Christian]

You if you have the registered version of FSUIPC installed you have the possibilty to limit wind changes in increments of a certain number of knots and degrees of wind directions per second. This will cure the problem but you will need the registred version of FSUIPC.

[EHM-1570 Bruce]

I have suggested a solution to this problem previously. While adjusting the settings in FSUIPC with regard to the wind changes, this will not completely remove the problem. While FSUICP will control the rate at which the wind alters, if you turn your aircraft into a strong head wind, your airspeed will increase, this is a function of the change of direction by your aircraft and not a change in the wind speed or direction , so FSUIPC will not see a change in the wind speed. A lot of autothrottles do not react quickly enough to compensate for this change, and you get the overspeed, If you do not fly any closer than about 20Kts to the overspeed Bar/markers, this should overcome the problem, this is how I fly all my flights, and I cannot remember the last time I got an overspeed penalty.

[EHM-1703 Philip]

Thanks Bruce,

That is probably the best tip anyone has given, keep your aircraft well inside the envelope of its design performance. Check and keep to the long range cruise speed of your aircraft and you should remain safe. For instance, when flying the 738 I keep my cruise speed to M.76 which gives enough of a buffer to allow for all eventualities. (Overspeed occurs at M.82 so normally any possible problems are picked up by the AT)

Below is a list of long range cruise speeds for our main division jets taken from the fleet pages. If you stay within or 1 click less than these speeds you should not suffer the problem.

F70 - M.70
E170 - M.70
A322 - M.75
B738 - M.76
A333 - M.82
B763 - M.80
A345 - M.83
B744 - M.85

I have suffered this problem myself in the past and it was because I was topping my PMDG738 out at M.78 which is too close to its performance limits. Like Bruce, I don't have the problem anymore unless I am pressing on to avoid traffic conflicts! (Normally when I have Bruno coming up behind me during a fly in!!! )

[EHM-0948 Bruno]

Hi,

PHilip please also what altitude are those Mach values ? Because the mach speed vs ground speed differs at different altitudes.
I suggest you are around FL330 right ?

[EHM-1703 Philip]

Bruno,

Now you will have to forgive me, I am not a physisist so my explanation here will wander and may be faulted but as I understand it......

Air stress tolerances are not measured by GS, Mach speed, KIAS or TAS. They are measured by EAS or the planes Equivelant Airspeed. This is the equivelant speed on a standard day at sea level. There is a relationship between EAS and the Mach speed and there is quite a complex calculation involved to work this out.

Mach measurements are calculated using a static pressure measurement, an impact pressure measurement and also using the speed of sound as a constant, so therefore regardless of altitude or pressure, a Boeing 738 should be able to withstand  the stresses involved in flying at M.80 at sea level on a "standard" (standard pressure and no wind component) day.... the only problem is..... It does not have the power to do so and would need to exceed these stress tolerances to dive in to this situation therefore it is almost a physical impossibility to achieve it. (I think!)

So with this in mind and with regards to my initial comment above, the maximum mach speed or for that matter the recommended long range cruise speed will never change, regardless of altitude, wind or pressure. At lower altitudes or in strong head winds this figure may not be achievable although at higher altitudes and with strong tailwinds it is easily possible to exceed them.

As I said, I am no scientist and I am open to correction, this is merely my limited understanding of flight dynamics so I hope I made myself a little clearer.

[EHM-1714 João]

I'm sad to see nothing has changed with ProPilot. Adding two lines of code would do wonders for that program.
Once again, after 10 hours of flight and while cruising I had an overspeed penalty and the reason? Weather update from IVAO... It's not that I don't agree with that penalty existing, but I just think something can and should be changed so that it doesn't show up when it shouldn't.
Another thing, some days ago I flew a 2 hours flight with PP and when submitting the flight I got a message saying that it couldn't be recorded as a ProPilot flight since I wasn't connected to the internet. Although I was connect, I'm going to assume something went wrong with my connection, but I can't stop but wonder why the flight information can't be recorded locally on the user's computer and then submitted to the website.
I'm a fan of ProPilot and I believe it has great potential, but I think there's still a long way for improvement and the way the program is right now it's just not accurate enough.

João

[EHM-1703 Philip]

João

Sorry you are having trouble, as you said, PP is not perfect and to be honest, I think it will always have faults as not every bodies system and FS setup can be accounted for and we do not have the ability to put thousands of man hours in to its development as some payware producers can do.

Unfortunately, we really can not alter the way FS interprets weather information from IVAO. The only way for us to combat this would be to pay the fee to Pete Dowson to register the Flight Logger with FSUIPC and use the wind smoothing function, this is really not something we can afford to do. (in fact it would be far cheaper for you to register your personal copy of FSUIPC and then enable the wind smoothing feature!)

Can I just check you have enabled wind smoothing in your IvAp settings? (on a standard clean install it is located under - Start>All Programs>IVAO>IvAp-IVAO Virtual Pilot Client>IvAp Configuration) You can click on the weather tab and enable a certain amount of wind smoothing from there although it is not controllable, to do this you have to register FSUIPC.

Andrei will be working on a connection light and/or messaging system on the next version of the Flight Logger to try and iron out the connection problem but this is a long way off as the program is having to be re-written from scratch! It will take a while as he can not work on it full time as he has a real life too! Please remember, ProPilot is still a freeware product that is available to all our pilots which is something no other VA offers, yes it's not perfect but we can not compete with the likes of payware products such as FS passengers because we want to keep it free.

[EHM-1749 Hector]

I never, never use the autothrottle and keep an eye all the time at the wind speed and direction. Keeping an eye on the wind is very easy because this option is built in FS with Shift-Z or if you use FSNavigator. It is easier with the FMC because you can visually check it. It is also visual with the B-747.
One more thing: knowing the maximum indicated speed of the plane is a must which in large jets also depends on the GW and altitude.
Wind direction and speed can have two effects: either it can overspeed or stall the plane. You can relax a bit when flying into a head wind but when the opposite is true, you must excercise extreme caution because you could be flying with a comfortable 430kts ground speed and still the plane can stall.
I normally stay at least 30kts from the Vmax and with my hand at the throttle. Many times I had to cut it totally to avoid an overspeed situation or had to go to the top to avoid a stall.
Northern Europe is tricky on this. When you cross the ocean you can expect to have strong wind movement within 100 nm from coast line so you got to be careful.
I flew last sunday from Vancouver to Atlanta and most of the time had a 40 to 50 kts tail wind. This keeps me with my eyes glued to the speedmeter and by doing this I avoided to get an overspeed situation twice and a stall once during the flight.
So the golden rule: forget the autothrottle, keep an eye on the wind and stay at least 30 kts below the Vmax.
Hector

[EHM-1500 Jim]

Hector, i agree with what you say but it is of no use when it comes to the on-line weather problem. With IVAO etc, the weather will suddenly update, change the wind direction and cause an immediate overspeed - there is no time to adjust anything. I have had it a lot of times and it is very annoying......

[EHM-1749 Hector]

I fly on-line 99% of the time 95% in IVAO and never had that problem. As per previous posts, it maybe caused because I use FSUIPC and have set the changing rate. Because I am not in my home computer cannot tell the numbers but I think it is about 5 degrees/second or something like that and about 1 kt/second. I have to check it tonite.
I understand your point because if you don´t have this setting the changes happen too fast.
I never tried and I don´t know if this can be done, but if you fly on-line then you can use the Jeppessen Real Time wheather feature in FS. When I am getting used with a new plane I don´t fly on-line but use this feature.
Cheers,
Hector

[EHM-1714 João]

Hello and thank you all for your replies.

To Philip, yes, I've got the wind smoothing function activated on IVAP but it's not enough. Maybe I will follow your suggestion and get a registered copy of FSUPIC.

To Hector: I'm an experienced FS Pilot (and soon to be real pilot!) so I know how to manage my speed correctly my only problem is with IVAO :! Not using the autothrottle is your choice, but that only makes it harder without any need and it is also not a realistic way of flying since with the exapction of airplanes without A/T pilots keep it on most of the time.

João

[EHM-1749 Hector]

Originally posted by EHM-1749 Hector

So the golden rule: forget the autothrottle, keep an eye on the wind and stay at least 30 kts below the Vmax.
Hector

Hi Joao, sorry if I sounded as lecturing you on this matter. It was not my intention and of course it is not.
I should have state: "So my golden rule" instead of "So the golden rule".
Please accept my apologies.
Hector

[EHM-1714 João]

Originally posted by EHM-1749 HectorPlease accept my apologies.
Hector

No need for that Hector!

João