Impossible or Incorrect flights.

[EHM-1703 Philip]

Guys,

Earlier this week I had an email from a member about a flight that was clearly impossible:

EHM-C535 (LGAV-YMML) - A 747-400F would never make this distance.

For that reason, I am going to endeavor to update as many of these flights as possible over the coming months. I know there are a considerable number of others out there that are not really within the limits of the aircraft assigned. Unfortunately due to a particularly bad virus, I have lost all my old emails, so i lost a lot of correspondance regarding these. Please add any impossible or troublesome flights you find to the topic so I can look in to it. Please add details of why it is impossible, i.e Out of range, Runway too short etc.

Many thanks.

[EHM-1242 Stef]

Hi Phil,

As a matter of fact it is NOT impossible at all: I flew it's return flight, YMML to LGAV (EHM-C536)!

Good, you can't file the flight via FLogger, but with a bit of creativity it can very well be done with filing the flight manually.

Mine was done with a stop-over in Singapore (WSSS) and looked as follows:

YMML-WSSS (block / flying time : 07:21 / 06:54 hours)
WSSS-LGAV (block / flying time : 11:49 / 11:23 hours)

Made a total block / flying time for this flight of 19:10 / 18:17 hours. Good for the score, right!?

Don't want to start this whole discussion here once again (there are enough such threads already), but i would consider it a loss for the timetable and a pitty if such flights would be removed or otherwise (or what do you mean with "endeavor to update"..?) Would prefer to see some functionality in the FLogger with which a stop-over (for refuelling or the-likes) can be carried out.

Many thanks in advance!
Best regards,

Stef
EHM-1242

ps. yes, him ja...

[EHM-1703 Philip]

Stef,

You are spot on with your comment. My plan is, not to completely remove the flight, rather as you suggest, split it in to two legs. This will take some planning and implementing so I don't see it taking place overnight, but I will spend a few hours on this once per month so if you have any more of these split leg flights.... Let me know, this is exactly what I want to sort out.

Thanks.

EDIT* Not sure I would split it the way you flew it though.... that's the long way round!

[EHM-1570 Bruce]

I have 2 flights that I think should be investigated, firstly flights into and out of LPFL Flores in a class 6 aircraft, this runway is  only 4500ft, which is too short for this class of aircraft, secondly flying out of SKCL Bogota in class 7 aircraft, this runway is only 9000ft long, it is possible to land on this runway, but to take off with a large fuel load the runway is too short. I tried to take off in the B744 on a flight to EGLL and the aircraft crashed on take off ( V2 was 175kts and at the end of the runway my airspeed was only 157kts, result was it crashed). It may be possible to take off if you drastically reduce the ZFW, but that would be unrealistic.

[EHM-1671 Ben]

Just one flight from a previous thread;

H335 LGAV - RJTT

It cannot be made with the 757's range - maybe we could just update it to a Class 7 flight?

Sorry for not posting it here first! :]

[EHM-1703 Philip]

3 more for the list!

H1070, H1094 and H1095 (Thanks Christian)

[EHM-1651 Christian]

ANd add those out of EGLC with the MD-83 aswell;D

[EHM-1689 Lukasz]

H1171 Atlanta - Jakarta (ca 16.700 km), MD-11 has a 12.800 km range...

BTW - there is a lot of impossible flights - who work on our VA's connection net???

[EHM-2190 ROCHA]

can anybody tell me if we land for refuel, is possible using propilot and online.
regards

[EHM-1703 Philip]

Hi Rocha,

Sorry at the moment there is not a refuel facility on ProPilot. I am trying to make a not of all the legs that require a refuel stop here so i can physically split them in to two flights on the database eventually.

Regards,
Phil

[EHM-1749 Hector]

Venezuela:
1. Flights EHM7038, 7039, 7176, 7177, 7622, 7623, C503, C502
These flights operate in SVCL which is a VERY small airport with a 4788' long runway, no lights, no nothing.
2. Flights EHM-H1123, H1139
These operate in SVFM which is an AFB not for commercial use. It has a 5970' long runway at 2738' altitude just in the heart of capital Caracas.
3. Flights EHM-H1125, H1141
These operate in SVSO which is also an AFB. Prior to commerical use it requires authorization from the military. I hate to do that.

Ever since I joined EHM I had posted a couple of times this matter. I also suggested to include the following commercial international airports: SVBC (9890' runway) and SVMC (also 9890' runway and my hometown. Please!)

[EHM-1749 Hector]

Colombia:
1. Class 7 flights EHM-7074, 7075, 7172, 7173, 7680, 7681 into SLCL. This airport serves Cali city (not Bogota as mistakenly shown) and cannot handle Class 7 flights for the reasons Bruce exposed several posts ago.
I suggest to change these flights to operate in/out of SKBO that serves the capital city Bogota. It has two very long parallel runways.
2. Class 5 flights EHM-5818, 5838, B554, B563, C593, C601 into SKBO. I suggest to change these flights to operate in/out SKCL.

[EHM-1703 Philip]

Thanks Hector, This is why I "Topped" this topic so it would always remain at the top so when we have more or less a complete list we can start altering them.

[EHM-1749 Hector]

No problem Phil. This is the third and last for South America:
Ecuador (please correct instead of Equador):
SEQU is the airport serving the capital Quito. It is quite inside the city. Airport's altitude is 9228' while the length of its only runway is 10200'.
Incoming long-haul non-stop flights are no problem. The problem is with the departing flights. It is impossible for a plane to go non-stop to Europe. I used to fly a lot when I lived there for 5 years using KLM, Lufthansa or Viasa either in their B747 or DC-10 and neither of them could do it. In fact, I used to be in the cockpit of Viasa's DC-10 and they had a restriction to MTOW of no more than 385,000 lbs. They either went to Caracas (SVMI) or Curazao (TNCC) for refueling before departing to Europe.
Guayaquil has no problem since it is at sea level.
So I suggest that flights EHM-1177, 1179, 1181 and H1283 be re-scheduled to allow a stop to refuel.

Thanks for keeping this post up. The idea is to be as real as possible. I believe one of the biggest challenges for the programmers of FLogger is to make it able to include this feature. It would be a big step for us.

[EHM-1703 Philip]

This is gonna take some time guys, but hopefully I will be able to get some time on this soon..... I knew our timetable was pretty screwed so i am sure there will be a lot more of these out there.

The only way around this refueling problem for the moment will be to split these long routes in to two completely separate flights that you will have to lock the first in PP then when you get to the refuel   stopover, go back and lock the next leg..... This needs some thought and will take some working out to make it work.

[EHM-0975 Ragnar]

I think UKKK should be added to the list - I just flew a class 5 into that airport and it's a bit tight. We currently use it for class 4,5,6 main and cargo (5900 ft rwy).

Passenger traffic should probably use UKBB (13100 and 11500ft), cargo UKKM (11500 ft).

[EHM-0948 Bruno]

Thank you Ragnar. I would suggest that you send an email to Miguel because he is developing our new Timetable.