Well, I may be immature sometimes, but I'm sorry I was not here to try to help sort things out. I like to help people with these sort of things like I showed in the UNHCR event page when some ranting went on.
I would just like to put in my input (I just want to make it clear I am not siding with anyone on this matter). I did not see Murray's initial post, but it must have said something wrong to cause this. Sometimes, people say things by accident, because of their strong opinion, or do things they regret. Murray is apologizing for what he said, which is the right and good thing to do, however, if someone says something wrong, the worst thing to do is make it worse, with saying something else that is offensive, but wasn't meant to be.
What I mean is, Murray said something bad, he apologized for his remarks. Conrad said something that he did not think sounded offensive, but is offensive to some people. Therefore, the least thing he could do is apologize, and say he didn't mean it that way, but he said he didn't feel he needed to apologize, which I find unpolite.
I feel the best solution to this is for everyone involved to say sorry for their misunderstanding, as Murray did, and if the person continues to flame other members for their view, some action is needed.
I am not trying to start an argument again, I'm merely trying to fix this one, as it seems to me not everyone is too happy with the outcome, I just want everyone to feel good, and I am NOT flaming particular members.
Finally, respect eatchothers opinions. People have different opinions, and it is not a good idea to challenge members about their opinions. Best of all, when you state your own opinion, don't try to make it seem like the best opinion, and think before you post. I made some bad mistakes like misinterpreting what Murray said about the training thingy, but that sorted itself out in the end.
I am sorry if I have misinterpreted anything that has happened, as I was not present at the time of the argument.
Anyway, now that I've had my little wise talk;D, I will say what I think of IVAP and Sqwkbox
I really don't mind the two. I find Sqauwkbox harder to get around, but in the end, they're the same thing, different style.