FMC\'s - do you use them?

[EHM-1465 Dominic]

I'm interested to know how many of you use any kind of FMC (Flight Management Computer/Flight Management System - lots of different names out there for the same thing !) when you are flying.

If you do, please indicate why you use it, like it etc as well as any problems you have... Say if it is part of the aircraft you normally use (eg PMDG 737NG) or an addon system.

If you don't use one, please say why - too complex / I use GPS instead / don't have payware planes etc

I'd like to build up a picture of how many pilots use these systems, whether they are well understood or not and whether there is any desire for tutorials about them.

I'm posting this after using vasFMC for the first time today - a fantastic, free full featured FMC suite which can be added to any aircraft. There is a new beta test version available which includes lots of the features you'd expect from payware but at ZERO cost!! You can even configure it to display the PFD, ND etc in Airbus OR Boeing style according to your preference! Definitely worth a look if you haven't tried it...

So, please let us know your thoughts about FMC's in general and if you would like help or tutorials on them we'll look at creating something as they can be quite complex at first

Thanks!

[EHM-1465 Dominic]

So, I'll start off with my own experiences:-

I often do use an FMC when flying aircraft like the PMDG 737, PSS and Wilco Airbusses etc and I enjoy the real world feel this brings to the flight. I've learned a lot about them from the ITVV series of cockpit videos and Mike Ray's series of Pilots' Guides so I feel comfortable programming and using them.

On the other hand, sometimes I just like to hand fly the plane myself especially if I'm short on time!

I sometimes wish I could use an FMC with some of the planes I fly rarely, like the EuroBiz TU-204 or the Fokker 70/100 and this is why I am pleased to have found out about vasFMC (see above).

It took me a while to get used to how these systems work but now that I know they are very easy to program and it only takes 5 minutes to set up.

Ok guys, over to you...

[EHM-0654 Murray]

My 2p worth; as I'm building (oh so very slowly) a B738 SimPit, I use my Project Magenta software and FDS hardware whenever I fly the bigger stuff (esp. Boeing), and as such I get a fair approximation of the 737 FMC/MCP/PFD etc.

While the PM flight planning is usually very wrong (the 738 not being a 777 for instance) I get a fairly close approximation on all the Boeing birds, and timings tend to be not so far off as most everything flies at much the same speeds (M0.80 is M0.80 at a given altitude, no matter what plane it actually is)

[EHM-1944 Jaap]

Most of the time I fly the LevelD 767 and I always use the FMC.
So now and than I fly the PMDG 737 and will use the FMC too.If you are used to the first one it is very easy to use the other one.
So in fact I hardly fly an other plane because there is no FMC in it.
So thanks for your remark about the vasFMC,I will surely test it.
Cheers,
Jaap

[EHM-1821 Javier]

I don't use FMCs, downloaded the Ifly 747 but always had problems, still using good old GPS though i fly the SIDs and STARs without the use of GPS. For cruise, i have no choice but to use the GPS :]

[EHM-1944 Jaap]

Tried the Ifly 747 too.Only problems,so got rid of it

[EHM-1465 Dominic]

I've used the iFly 747 quite a bit and although it had some real problems at the start, after 3 service packs I find it good and reliable now

It's also got one of the most comprehensive manuals of any freeware aircraft I've seen! Even without using the plane itself, the manual is a great place to start if you want to learn the functions of an FMC system

[EHM-1883 Matt]

Sometimes. It really depends on whether I want the flight to be easy or a challenge;D

[EHM-2155 Mariano]

Never used one but would like to know how to. It seems like a handy little tool. I always fly the SIDs and STARs manually and its a pain in the butt without a copilot ^^
Id love to see some manuals on it
BTW which ITVV videos show ppl using the fmc? Like which episodes?

[EHM-1465 Dominic]

Mariano,

There's a whole load of information available to learn about FMC's from videos at Youtube like

this one

which is one of a series of 10, to written tutorials like this download at Avsim. If you search for "FMC tutorial" at these sites, you'll see that there are quite a few to choose from...

As for the ITVV programmes, most of them have some coverage of FMC use and it is covered in some detail in the 737-300 and A320 programmes.

See what you think of these materials and let me know if you need more detail or have questions

[EHM-2097 Andrei]

I use FMC or not... depending on the aircraft.

For now, the only payware aircraft I got is Wilco / Feelthere Airbus (volume 1). Although there are a lot of features incorporated in their FMC, which make it interesting to use, there are some severe limitations too:

- It is VERY sensitive to changes (it is an adventure to change the STAR while airborne, and sometimes the result gets so messy that only the manual flight option remains available)

- The SID/STAR processor only understands "track to" legs, while in the real procedures there is a lot more (procedure turns, heading to intercept VOR radial etc.)

Due to these limitations, I only use fully the FMC while flying offline, by checking in advance the runways in use at both origin and destination, and planning the whole route before getting airborne. I tried a couple of flights online but every time I had to fly the arrival / approach procedures by hand.

How to use the FMC (one of the questions of the original post), however, was never the issue, roughly everything is explained in the provided PDF manual (as chapter referred, but not included in the printed manual!).


My experience in payware FMC is about to "double" though, because I just bought the Flight1 ATR - waiting for delivery as I write this - so I will let you know how I feel about it.


I tried the vasFMC, an older version I think, but although it includes a lot of good work for an interesting results, I don't use it on a regular basis for several reasons:

- The same limitation as above in SID/STAR procedures (with a difference though: the vasFMS manual clearly states this limitation, while in the case of Wilco I had a long e-mail conversation with the support people, who in the end did not provide an actual answer to my question about it).

- A very personal motive - due to the same limitation and a procedure turn gone bad, which led to one of my very few "avoidable crashes" with the EHM fleet.

- The version I tried was a standalone application, partially integrated with FS, which was not a big plus for realism.

I need also to mention that auto-flying SID/STAR/approach procedures is not a most desirable feature for me because this is exactly what I like to do manually. In fact, the flying style I like most is semi-manual, that is controlling via the AP "hold airspeed", "hold heading" and "hold altitude / vertical speed".

However, as a professional software engineer, I find very appealing the idea of programming the whole flight (into the FMC) then relax and let the machine do its job while enjoying the landscape.

Thus FMCs are definitely a subject of interest for me.

Andrei

P.S. Dominic, in your original post I think you forgot one possible reason for not using a FMC: "I use INS instead"

[EHM-1671 Ben]

I don't have any payware planes with an FMC but it also looks too complicated

[EHM-1749 Hector]

The only FMC I use is the one in B763 from LDS. I can say that I have a good knowledge of it eventhough sometimes it does weird things (or maybe I am the one doing weird things) specially when changing the FP. In every flight I try new stuff to check the results. SID/STARS sometimes are not programmed as they should be but when this happens I just delete the WPs not in the SID or STAR.
The guys from Ifly developed the FMC for the B742 and my plan is to start looking at as soon as I finish reading the 400+ pages of the manual.
A final word regarding SIDs/STARs is that I normally get them from the Planet site since Navigraph does not include them in the cycles.

Most of the time I use only the LNAV part of the FMC during the initial climb and final descent stages for I prefer to have full control of the climb/descent rates.

[EHM-1944 Jaap]

Ok Hector,I agree with that.Flying the B763 in the vnav mode while using PP can give you nice penalties
So I only use vnav while climbing over 10.000 ft using reduced thrust (clb2) and while descending I will switch off vnav and take control over speed and vert speed myself via the mode control panel. And ofcourse vnav is used while cruising.
Sids and stars are imported from FSbuild if possible.

[EHM-1749 Hector]

100% correct Jaap. I can also turn VNAV off during cruise in those instances when the wind speed is high and shifting in direction.
BTW, have you ever got the Insufficient Fuel warning? I have never got it even when loading a low amount on purpose.

[EHM-1883 Matt]

Message original :  EHM-1749 Hector
100% correct Jaap. I can also turn VNAV off during cruise in those instances when the wind speed is high and shifting in direction.
BTW, have you ever got the Insufficient Fuel warning? I have never got it even when loading a low amount on purpose.

I've had that before, but only when I had unlimited fuel clicked on. I switched it off and it didn't do that anymore.

[EHM-2155 Mariano]

Thanks Dominic for the video tutorial link, it was very interesting, however I wonder how our freeware fleet would react to having a 3rd party FMC? For example most of the planes dont even have a VNAV/LNAV buttons, we will have to add them manually in the panel? Idk how this would work.. Id love to get some payware but at the moment im out of cash and my aging rig wouldnt handle them (too much detail on most, I even get performance drops using the Posky A330-300 from the freeware fleet)... so I guess for now Ill stick to the old flight planner and GPS =(

[EHM-2097 Andrei]

Originally posted by EHM-1944 Jaap
Ok Hector,I agree with that.Flying the B763 in the vnav mode while using PP can give you nice penalties

Same problem with the Wilco Airbus, when starting descent its built-in VNAV aims for a high rate of descent, but there are fluctuations before it gest stabilized, which often results in vertical speeds temporarily above 5500fpm = PP penalty. Thus I always start descent earlier than the FP suggests, by controlling the vertical speed myself, until I am stabilized on the profile and only then I engage VNAV.

Originally posted by EHM-1944 Jaap
Sids and stars are imported from FSbuild if possible.

Normally I am not against writing the procedures myself for some frequently used airports, but it gets frustrating when you don't know which legs will be flown and which ones are completely ignored by the FMC.

So I end up by flying RNAV procedures with the FMC and flying by hand the navaid-based procedures.

Andrei

[EHM-1944 Jaap]

No Hector,did not have the insufficient fuel warning yet.
Before flight I am using a fuel planner so after landing there will be approx. 25000 lbs of fuel left in the tanks.
This was a problem with flying the DC8.I could not find any figures about the fuelconsuming of this plane on the net.So I had to figure it out by flying some test flights.With succes I guess,because yesterday I made it from LPPT to GLRB without lack of fuel. :]

[EHM-1749 Hector]

Hi Jaap, I normally use 15000 lbs for reserve, 15000 lbs for the first hour including climb, 12000 pph on cruise and 6000 for descent on the B763.
Regarding the DC8, I use 18000 lbs for reserve, 21000 lbs for the first hour including climb, 15000 pph on cruise and 6000 lbs for descent.
Those JT-A4 are fuel eaters and as a pilot said once: "those are engines that convert fuel  in noise".
With other DC8-30 I use largers amounts since the fuel scalar is 1.56 compared with 1.2 we have in EHM.