Author Topic: Aircraft refuses to take off  (Read 5810 times)

EHM-0441 Stefan

  • Guest
Aircraft refuses to take off
« on: August 30, 2008, 05:32:02 pm »
(Edited by EHM-0654 Murray; subject was "Aircraft refuse to take off and just go straight in to the woods... tried to lift off 4 times and same resault")

I start with breaks on, full throttle and flaps down and still the plane goes all the way to the end of the runway and crash and nothing I can do about it. AP is off, all is off, no A/T or ALT/HDG on... V/S... nothing, and still the plane just hugs the ground and crash... any idé why? Could it be winds, I mean no matter the wind a jet powered not too big airplane should lift off, I noticed some crosswinds or something but still I should get a lift right, I got to liek 120 kts and no lift at all... just crashes... its getting frustrating. I would like to see the orginial aircrafts as part of the lineup because these freewares works great when it pleases them... and at random just seem to make both the simulator crash and crash them selfs and what not... And I dont have any addons except the EHM planes and lots of trubble anyway... I was gonna fly back from BIRK to ESSA now and no luck.

Offline EHM-1749 Hector

  • Geostationary orbit
  • ******
  • Posts: 436
  • Karma: 0
Aircraft refuses to take off
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2008, 06:02:30 pm »
Stefan,
what airplane? did you check the CG position?
what the lenght of rwy was? what the altitude of the rwy was?
what the takeoff weight of the airplane was?

Good pilots keep their number of landings equal to their number of takeoffs. Takeoffs are optional but landings are Mandatory.

EHM-0441 Stefan

  • Guest
Aircraft refuses to take off
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2008, 06:13:35 pm »
Runway is 4768 ft long.
Aircraft: Bombardier Challanger 850
Well, it got 80% fuel.
Gross weight: 48855 pounds.

Hell, its a powerful aircraft, not very big either, that runway shouldnt be a problem right? :O I've had larger planes lifting off smaller airfields I'm sure of it... not that I check such things that often but it doesnt appear very small to me..  :D hum.. I checked to compare, runway 26 wich I've been lifting off from at ESSA (arlanda) is almost twice as long.. maybe its that simple, its too short, but damnit shoudling 110 kts be enough for liftoff? :O I could get the Emberer 170 to stay steadily at 115 kts so why shouldnt this plane be able to take off at 110.. :O

It doesnt say on the info of the plane whats required either. But well I guess its too short. But just for the hell of it I'm gonna try with a larger plane and damnit if I get it off the ground! :D

EHM-0441 Stefan

  • Guest
Aircraft refuses to take off
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2008, 06:18:11 pm »
The emberer 170 got off the group almost fully loaded, just 2k pounds away from fully loaded. And I had a good bit left of runway and made it with no problem at all on that runway!

Look here for your self:


At the end I use the spoiler and just then it start to magicaly lift of when it should be pushed down. Something is odd... :| At that point I wouldnt make it anyway since it wouldnt budge off the ground more then that little tiny bit you see at the end...

Note that I did fly this bird all the way from ESSA(Sweden, stockholm) to BIRK(Iceland, reykjavik) and not much trubble at all. Abit hard to find all the switches and get going but once that was done I had a pretty nice flight, even managed to land the d**n thing.. :P

Offline EHM-1749 Hector

  • Geostationary orbit
  • ******
  • Posts: 436
  • Karma: 0
Aircraft refuses to take off
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2008, 10:46:07 pm »
Hi Stefan,
it is maybe my visual, but in the video I didn't observe the flaps setting. It seems that the flaps were not set.
I recreated your takeoff from the same runway 13 at BIRK with the wind 090/08, 20 degrees or 2 notches of flap, TOW 48880 lbs, trim set at 4 and could take off in several occasions after reaching 128 kts. It was very close to the end of the runway and I thought I could hit the building but could clear it.
I recorded a video but for some reason FS did not keep it. When I tried to play it, FS crashed to the desk. Sorry about it.

Good pilots keep their number of landings equal to their number of takeoffs. Takeoffs are optional but landings are Mandatory.

EHM-0441 Stefan

  • Guest
Aircraft refuses to take off
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2008, 05:21:37 am »
I tried 4 times and I might have forgotten the flaps the last time there when I recorded but I know I had flaps down the first tries because well first of all I allways start with flaps as thats the way you do it. Might be that the replay didnt show too because well the replay in FS9 is abit weird to say the least. But I'm certain I've done it with flaps and tbh I think we can agree it shouldnt have a problem taking off from that airfield. I can lift off with a boeing 777 from meigs filed chicago and that runway cant be much longer... :P I've tried all big planes there :D I used to fly there all the time before I joined EHM :)

EHM-0441 Stefan

  • Guest
Aircraft refuses to take off
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2008, 05:32:17 am »
Hum maybe its not suppose to make a 4,7k runway. I'm doing some research now and it seems a C850 need 6,295 ft runway. Hope there are a bigger runway then so I can fly back to sweden else I'd have to file a report that... that flight isnt for a Challenger 850 if no runway can handle it for takeoff.. ;) but I'm sure there are a longer runway else it would be very bad airport.. :O   


http://lightjetage.com/Spec-sheet/Bombardier-Challenger-850.html

NOTE: According to my "research" BIRK is not suitable for this aircraft, even on the longest runway on that airport its 1100 ft too short for the Callenger 850 to make a safe takeoff.

EHM-0441 Stefan

  • Guest
Aircraft refuses to take off
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2008, 05:51:23 am »
I made a take off now, just very barely.

Parking breaks.
Full flaps.
Full throttle.
And release on clearence.
I just barely got above the buildings and trees.

Another annoying thing is that when I put the autopilot on for it to start climbing it points nose straight down, why? Its as if it doesnt put it to a positive vertical speed when I do it. It should... and I have to fight hard to get it to start a climb, have happened on many aircrafts.

EDIT: I just noticed another thing, this time I had only 15% fuel so maybe thats why I managed to take off this time.. :(

Offline EHM-2198 Didimo

  • Climbing
  • ****
  • Posts: 168
  • Karma: 0
    • http://www.virtual-aviation.net
Aircraft refuses to take off
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2008, 06:59:08 pm »
Could be a  number of factors but that another type of a/c took off fully loaded is not a good reference. For one thing some models out there are real others are kind of idealized. Would be nice if you say which a/c it is :)

In any case you have to make sure:
1. I don't think full flaps is a take off configuration. Usually you are about 1/3 or something like that. Flaps are a double edge sword, they are for low speeds but as you take off speed is building up and too much flaps can give you too much friction.

2. Did you check your CG (Center of Gravity)? Adjust your fuel and load accordingly.

3. Was your total weight exceeding your MTOW (Maximum Take Off Weight) ? if so go to (2) and decrease it. You have to trade off fuel for cargo. By rule around 30% extra is usually loaded as extra fuel. However, some FS aircraft consume a LOT more than what the flight planner tells you. You don't want to run off fuel in mid air. If it is an EHM a/c I suggest you look up the flight stats of that same flight/route with that particular a/c and see what was the consumption trend, use the maximum + margin as your minimum fuel load.

4. Brakes? on jets don't forget to use the RTO (Reject Take Off) auto-brakes setting.

5. Did you accidentally deploy air brakes? if it was a prop a/c were you autofeathering?

6. Is the runway length enough for your type of a/c?

7. Airfield altitude affects the amount of runway an a/c uses for take off. Not all a/c can take off from high altitude airfields.

8. Was your power setting correct? Some a/c even when you do full throttle give you less than that (internal logic), in such cases use the F4  or the AP command button override.


AFAIK it is not a good idea to take off on autopilot. However, you should set your auto pilot (speed, heading, course, initial climb and possibly V/S if not automatically computed) while on the ground but take off and do initial climb manually. You may want to gradually engage autopilot functions or just do the whole thing manually.

EHM-0441 Stefan

  • Guest
Aircraft refuses to take off
« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2008, 07:14:21 pm »
I do say wich it is, but my posts are a mess lol so I dont blame ya.. :P

Anyway, its the bombardier Challenger 850.. :D

Well, I found out from real spec:es on the a/c that it need 6200 ft of runway... thats what what the specifications says for that aircraft. And the runway I had problems on was only 4800 ft give or take a few ft. But as I could get the boeing 747 off that runway and the emberer 170 with no problem at all I think its strange.

But what bugs me the most is that it crashed on arlanda on that 10000+ ft runway and wouldnt take off and just got to such speed it became unstable and flipped on its roof.

It could be trim settings left at odd position from previous flight that I never realy checked.

God I've realy made a big deal out of this lol.. like done 15 posts on this silly subject xD

Offline EHM-2155 Mariano

  • Sub-orbital
  • ******
  • Posts: 343
  • Karma: 1
Aircraft refuses to take off
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2008, 12:22:48 am »
Yeah even on our fleet page it says take off run 5000-5500 feet... It really is weird to see a small plane like that struggling so hard to lift off, but that could be a result of those thin wings...