Flying non-EHM models...

[EHM-0654 Murray]

Reviving an old topic and making it a poll... Do you think that you and I should be allowed to fly payware models of aircraft in the fleet if they don't have a specific EHM (or division) repaint?

It's just one more thing for management to think about, and I know you guys have more than enough on your collective plates as it is, and the last thing I want is anyone starting a flame war or anything of the sort (and Robert [as fleet manager], please don't take what follows as a personal slur of yourself or the excellent fleet you have found and built upon for us all), over what is, to me, a non-issue, but...

Given that the only time you (EHM management) know if a pilot is *not* using an EHM model is if the pilot is using the flight logger, and the logger only works with main timetable flights, would it really so bad to let pilots use a PMDG/FSD/OtherPayware model if they have one?

For the next few months (at least) on IVAO, other pilots aren't going to know if your in EHM colours or not as IVAO aren't rolling VA/custom MTL colour schemes yet, and even when they do (based on IVAP's current airline selector) you could just say the plane is EuroHarmony but actually be flying some other colour scheme with no ill effects for everyone else. I have no idea how VATSIM deals with these things; I haven't used VATSIM in best part of a year.

As long as the payware aircraft model is part of the fleet (i.e. PMDG 737-800, FSD Piaggio Avanti, PIC A320, and there are sure to be others), and not just something close (sorry, Razza, the 737-600/700 is not the 737-800 and from a personal standpoint nor are any of the 737-6/7/8/900 series the BBJ2), what does it matter to anyone (other than the pilot) if it's an EHM colour/freeware model, EHM colour/payware model or a payware model with some other colour scheme that he/she is piloting? Heck, we could even have a list of "approved" models, I'm sure there are enough of us in the membership that we could collectively say "yes, that's a pretty good model" or "no, that model sucks" for most everything out there...

[EHM-1500 Jim]

Quite agree with you Murray - think we should be able to use payware versions of the EHM fleet. I have recently purchased the PMDG 737 series and to be honest, once you've flown them, going back to one of the freewrae fleet aircraft just isn't the same. Not meening to be critical of the fleet which i think for freeware is very good but now i have tasted better things i want to keep flying them. I think that as long as the aircraft is part of the fleet eg 737-800 then we should be able to fly it for EHM - if not, then i'm afraid i'll just fly it anyway and not be able to continue contributing to EHM on IVAO.......

[EHM-0654 Murray]

Originally posted by drhoyle
...then i'm afraid i'll just fly it anyway...

(Edited my post ever so slightly...)

Jim,

I have done in the past, and no doubt will do long into the future, and I suspect there are many of us in the membership that do too.

If someone from management can spare the time to run some quick faceless stats over the logger PIREPs for (say) the last 4 weeks, what's the split between flights flown in known EHM models as against non-EHM models?

[EHM-0001 Gergely]

People are requesting us to allow flights with non-EHM planes. People are requesting us to allow flights which are not in the timetable (IVAO WT etc). Naaah... we are a virtual airline, not a virtual pilot logbook.

I'm making payware repaints, as I already announced, be patient... the PMDG Beech is ready, the others will follow shortly... PMDG 737, EuroWings ATR etc.

Gergely

[EHM-1343 Jonathan]

To be honest, i don't care!

I am happy with the current models in the fleet and think managment has done a great job! Well done all. The FPS produced are great and also freeware is getting more and more realistic, take POSKY and Meljet for instance. However, the idea of introducing payware models can be good, it gives a realistic experience.

Some aircraft have great payware models and this could be used to our advantage but if one person has say the, Dreamfleet 737-400 and knowbody else has them, managment will not paint it.

[EHM-1343 Jonathan]

BTW the dreamfleet 737-400 might be a bad example, it was quite popular.

[EHM-1001 Robert]

I am sorry, but I do not understand the rest of the content. If you mean, you are not allowed to fly the payware version of the EHM aircrafts, it is not true. You are allowed. As Gergely said, we do not allow to fly non-EHM aircraft for the airline. It does not mean, if there is not an EHM repaint for PMDG 737-800, then you cannot fly. You can fly it surely. Repaints are on the way...

About the IVAO/VATSIM status. As I know, IVAO uses AI-Aardwark airplanes and repaints for traffic. I do not know how it works, so I do not know at the moment how could you add EHM liveries, so other on-line mates SEE your EHM livery. I do not know if IVAO allowes that VAs presented in their CSL (Common Shape Library) At VATSIM, they are welcome VA repaints in their CSL, which is not change too frequently. VATSIM is improving day by day, so it is possible that you can soon present your EHM livery to others on VATSIM network.

[EHM-1500 Jim]

Thanks for clearing that up a bit SirRoberto.I'm soory if my first post sounded critical - it wasn't meant to be. As you can see from my flights i use the fleet aircraft alot for the tours and special missions and agree with Razza that they are excellent and alot of hard work has been done on them. My only point was that as i am currently class 5, i like to use the PMDG 737-800 instead of the fleet version as it adds alot more to my flight sim experience and so i use it for my class 5 flights and submit my PIREPS with it. Happy landings, Jim

[EHM-0654 Murray]

Originally posted by SirRoberto
...I do not know if IVAO allowes that VAs presented in their CSL (Common Shape Library)...

Robert; at present, no, but the idea is that once IVAP has been released and had some time to "bed down", VA's will be allowed to submit their colours for their fleet.

Having said that, following a few more flights on IVAO in the FSD Piaggio, I have noticed that it (the P180) is not listed in the AI-Aardvark/MTL list at all, so as far as anyone else is concerned I am in a Cessna 172 (as that is my choice from the MTL list)...

To an extent, this is precisely the theme at the core of my original post - I'm pretty much the only person in the world that knows I'm flying the FSD Piaggio in it's default colour scheme.

My flightplan tells controllers I'm in a P180 (and no more...) and my MTL selection tells other pilots I'm in a Cessna! The only thing that knows *precisely* what I'm flying is the EHM flight logger, and as I'm only using it to record my flight (to make submitting the WT PIREP easier) no-one but me will get to see it's output.

Originally posted by YR-TGM
People are requesting us to allow flights with non-EHM planes. People are requesting us to allow flights which are not in the timetable (IVAO WT etc). Naaah... we are a virtual airline, not a virtual pilot logbook.

Gergely; I fully understand your take on this, and I agree that PIREPing non-EHM flights (to IVAO/VATSIM or EHM) should be forbidden, and I agree that it is far better to be in EHM (or division) colours any time a pilot is flying an EHM (or division) flight. We *are* a virtual airline, and hours logged on "non-company" time are just that - personal to you as a pilot and nothing to do with the "company".

(In fact, and in all seriousness, we could take that thought logically a little further, and stop counting EHM tours hours in a pilots "company" flight hours.)

It's not that "I want to fly a non-EHM plane", more that "I would like to be able to use this highy accurate payware model of a plane that's in the EHM fleet, even though I don't have an EHM sanctioned repaint for it (yet), over the admittedly good, but not as accurate, freeware model from the fleet".

The choice of aircraft model is completely in the control of the pilot. Even if management tell the membership "You must use aircraft for which an EHM (or division) sanctioned repaint is available" (i.e., the fleet), and with the logger recording the model used, other than by stringent human checking of all PIREPS submitted from the logger (much like all IVAO WT PIREPs are checked by human IVAO staff for errors) there is no way that that restriction is going to be enforcable. I'm *not* saying don't put out an edict to this effect (in fact, I'd be very surprised if it's not  already in the OpsMan), just don't be too upset that members may on occasion ignore it.

Bah! I'm being Libran again and trying to argue both sides of the case... I'll stop this now, and get back to flying.

[EHM-1120 Russ]

I fully agree with only logging EHM flights based on the timetable and fleet available.  As for using a Payware version of the same aircraft it is not nearly as nice as flying with the EHM colors.  It just looks wrong to me.  That said, I own PMDG 737, Wilco CRJ-200 and the PMDG Beech along with the ATR and find it hard to not fly them.  I am not sure if I should feel guilty in using the PMDG 737 instead of the freeware version.

[EHM-1077 Emanuele]

Just throwing my two eurocents in:

I agree with Gergely: no point being a VA if people start
flying different planes/flights. I can understand the need
for a more sophisticated plane for some, and Gergely is
already working on the repaints, so it's just matter of time.
I disagree that tours shouldn't be counted as flight hours.
It might be just my personal taste but they are part of the
EHM experience and as such should be counted as flying
experience for EHM.

Ciao ciao!

Manu