APP chart question (and a suggestion...)

[EHM-0654 Murray]

I realise I should know this stuff, and heck, I probably do without realising it, but on an approach chart, how do you know which waypoint is the IAF (Initial Approach Fix) and which is the FAF (Final Approach Fix)? All my CDU documentation explains setting up for CAT II/III autoland in terms of FAF's, but I've never seen it explained anywhere which is which on a chart...

And my suggestion; how about making a "EuroHarmony Training" (or similar) forum channel for questions of this nature?

... off to look on the VFA section of the main site, just in case this is already answered there ...

[EHM-1281 Cyriel]

From the top of my head. The END of the STAR is the IAF. The FAF I will have to look up but I seem to recall it is somewhere on the chart.

[EHM-1001 Robert]

Is not FAF the point where you catch the localizer ?

[EHM-0654 Murray]

Gents (won't quote either of you for this)

I had a feeling the end of the Arrival/STAR was the IAF (makes sense, it's the link between the arrival and the approach...)

And thanks to a number of online references, I now know that on Jeppessen format approach plates, the FAF is marked with as an "X"

So thank you all...

Example taken from EGLL 27L ILS approach plate

[EHM-1555 Kendy]

Hello Pilots,

so the IAF is usually the first navigational facility associated with the actual approach and consist course, radial, DME, procedure turn, holding pattern, radar vector,.. (also called 'intermediate section)

The 'intermediate section' ends at the FAF (final approach fix). an FAF may be an NDB, LOM, procedure turn, or a reversal turn in a holding pattern.

But guys, the FAF and IAF may be the same point; for example: the
LOM may be the IAF flying outbound and may also the FAF when flying inbound.

Anyway the FAF (also called the ' intermediate approach section') intersects the glidepath for the precision portion of the approach.

So and now the question: What point comes after IAF and FAF,....?

....na , rigth the MAP  (Missed approach point)
 , but a MAP is not shown on the IAP  (IAP= Instrument approach procedure)


if you have still question,...just ask

best regars,

Kendy Mathes

[EHM-0654 Murray]

Originally posted by EHM-1555
...but a MAP is not shown on the IAP  (IAP= Instrument approach procedure)

Thanks Kendy, and not *strictly* true. IAP covers all the instrument approach plates; both precision and non-precision. While precision plates indeed don't have the MAP indicated (because it's up to the PF to decide if the MCP has it right), non-precision plates will always have the MAP marked.

I argue semantics only; again, thanks...

[EHM-0005 Maarten]

Initial Approach segment - This segment starts at the Initial Approach fix (IAF) and ends at the Intermediate Fix (IF). In this segment, the enroute part of the flight has ended and the intermediate approach is being prepared. The minium obstacle clearance (MOC) is at least 300 meters.

Intermediate Approach segment - This segment starts at the Intermediate Fix (IF) and ends at the Final Approach Fix (FAF). The minimum obstacle clearance (MOC) is at the beginning at least 300 meters and decreases to a minium value of 150 meters at the end of this segment.

Final Approach segment - This segment begins at the Final Approach Fix (FAF) and ends at the Missed Approach Point (MAPt). At this point, the aircraft is aligned with the runway and additional turns should not be required. In case of an ILS/MLS approach, the FAF is called FAP (Final Approach Point).


My 2 cents

[EHM-0654 Murray]

Originally posted by Maarten Pols
My 2 cents

Trust you to stick your oar in! Just cause you're learning all this for real!

OK, if I may impose upon your expertise in this matter then Maarten, isn't Robert correct in saying that by the time you reach the FAF (which is the start of the GS after all), you should already be in LOC/APP mode with the second CMD enabled (to use Boeing MCP autoland phraseology)?

[EHM-0005 Maarten]

As my expertise is pure theoretically at this moment, I can't talk from experience on this matter.

My instinct says that Robert is right, so the LOC/APP should be engaged. The main reason why there's a FAF is, as previously mentioned, no turns should be necesarry.