Airbus A380 in EHM fleet?

[EHM-1771 Duarte]

As an important VA, does EHM brought any A380?
In other words, did EHM any order of the new A380?
In affirmative case, what will be the delivery date?

[EHM-1001 Robert]

Hi there,
now, we have not bought any yet. It is too large, and too expensive to fit into the current fleet.

[EHM-1760 Sven]

Will we do it anytime?

[EHM-1001 Robert]

Maybe later, if it was succeded in real life. Well, we should create a brand new class for that aircraft, and we should "send" it to do 20 hours flights, among only a dozen of destinations. Who would like to still fly that bird in these circumstances ?

[EHM-1760 Sven]

I am sure people like Kendy will :> Sometimes there will be somebody

[EHM-1730 Geoffrey]

I guess the A380 can still be classified under class 7 in future since it's meant to be the boeing 747 competitor?

[EHM-1651 Christian]

Well i think the intentions with building the A380 was not to make these long flights but offer an higher pax capasety on routes to allow the airlines to reduce the longhauls fleets if you can fly 1,5 B744 in one flight you save fuel and recuse traffic in the sky, many places airspace i already overcrowded.  i got an shorter range by the A345 but it's not an product aimed just for the LR market.

[EHM-1703 Philip]

Christian,

I would beg to differ. From what I have read, and with an aircraft that requires that much thrust to get off the ground and climbing, it would definately not be viable on short or most medium haul routes. From what I have seen it is not aimed at these markets, but squarely as a replacement for 747's on intercontinental routes. All of Airbuses comparisons are with the 747-400, and you don't see many of those flying Heathrow to Amsterdam or Zurich to Athens on a regular schedule. Also you have to note that limitations of airports regarding runway length and the boarding restrictions of the A380 coupled with the fact that there only 149 on the order books (27 of which are freight variants) this will mean it will probably not be used for medium range work for quite some time if ever.  

I personally don't think you will see the A380 on anything less than 5 hour flights in the real world but ofcourse we will have to wait and see. If larger capacity is required on shorter routes I think this will be the work of 787-300 carrying 330 Pax with a 3500nm range. It is squarely pitched at the coast to coast US Domestic Market and also with the rumoured halt in production of the 767 next year, this will be it's direct replacement which is the current work horse of most major US Domestic Carriers on the coast to coast routes. There is also the A350-800 which will be 300 pax capacity but a range of up to 7500nm will also be a consideration for this type of market.

That's just my Humble opinion though. Cheers

[EHM-1001 Robert]

I think, I agree with Phil. Although the A380 was presented as a competitor to the Jumbo, but really it is only a competition in size. It is no question, A380 won that trophy. But to operate it efficiently, it really needs to fly long distances. But, if Airbus would improve the plane and release a domestic version, like the 747-400D, it would be really a competitor too in the domestic ranges and market.

[EHM-1651 Christian]

Well I didn't make have in mind the use of the A380 as an mediumrange replacer, but with an max pax of 850 flying it on routes around 4-5 in a one class version will maybe be economic but not very likly because of the higher airportfees that it probably will have because of the changes to terminals and runways and taxiways.
What i tried to rule out in my last statement was that the A380 is not only intended as an longrange aircraft but prpbably is most likely to be used on the routes today wich make use of B744 and A33x A34x type of aircafts, on transcontinental and intercontinetal routes.

But with the economic side if you use the A380 on a flight from London to New York you get an extra cargoallloance when not having to use it full fuelcapasity. Wich gives an extra income oppertunity for those carriers who operates combined flights with  cargo pallets in the belly.
But if Airbus statments that it has an lower seatcost per mile than the B744 it must be more economic to fly even on shorter routes but you get an higher loss if you can't fill up the plane, so it has to be used on high densety routes onranges from 3500-8000nm i think:-)
:%:%:%:o

[EHM-1703 Philip]

Christian, you could be right, especially like you say if operators go for the single class variants later on, which I believe are some way down the list.  the current variants are the A380-800 which will be first to enter service with a 3 class 550 Pax capacity, then the 700 variant with 480 Pax in 3 classes and finally the 900 variant which is slated as 656 seats in 3 classes.

I guess we will just have to wait and see, especially now Boeing have announced the 747-800. All the industry reports expect the remaining major airlines (AA, BA, DLH & KLM) to announce orders in the coming year, but they are expecting this to be a battle between the 777, 787, A330 and A350 as most operators want the cost savings of the twin engined long range aircraft.

[EHM-1651 Christian]

just one more thing Phil, Deuche Lufthansa is already an costumer for the A380, and it's mahybe an graeter chanse of KLM buying them after the merger with AirFrance who also have put orders on them.
But ailines like Emirates who put an large order for the a380, have an etops regulation on 120mins meaning they must use fourengined aircraft on almost any overseasroute.

From Airbus
Emirates,
the world's first A380 customer, which has 45 of the 21st century flagship aircraft
They must be serois about it:>

[EHM-1001 Robert]

Well, I think there is another factor next to Emirates: the money and luxury. I am sure they will use the planes mainly on marketing purposes, to demonstrate the luxury around Dubai, and the whole country, and not really because they are unsatisfied with the current A330 and A340 fleet. It is another good chace for them to grab more passengers to their airline, and to give the chance to even more tourists trying out the largest and most luxurious airplane of the world, when flying in or out Dubai.

[EHM-0654 Murray]

I have to agree with Robert on this particular issue, Emirates have signed up for 45 of these monsters just to show off... The "proof of the pudding" (and potentially what makes or breaks Airbus Industrie) will be how many of the ordinary carriers out there buy it, the Virgin's and BA's of the world.

Don't get me wrong, the A380 is a great bit of technology and I so want them to break even on the project, but the future of the company is pretty much in the hands of the Airbus sales people now...

[EHM-1670 Bill]

Originally posted by baszw
But ailines like Emirates who put an large order for the a380, have an etops regulation on 120mins meaning they must use fourengined aircraft on almost any overseasroute.

So what are they going to do with this lot? Surely they cannot all be for internal flights.

Dubai - Dubai's ninth international aerospace exhibition kicked off Sunday with the announcement that Emirates Airlines has placed firm orders for 42 Boeing 777 aircraft in a deal worth 9.7 billion dollars.

The order, the largest ever for the Boeing 777 family of aircraft, consists of 24 Boeing 777-300ER jets, 10 777-200LR Worldliners and eight 777 Freighters, with the first aircraft scheduled for delivery in 2007. In addition, Emirates has purchase rights for 20 more 777 aircraft.

[EHM-1001 Robert]

What the hell are they doing ? Are they replacing all the Airbus fleet

[EHM-1703 Philip]

Emirates is one of the fastest growing airlines in the world in terms of fleet. Unfortunately they are not growing in PAX terms at quite the same rate. I know the deal they have done with Airbus for the A380 has the 43 aircraft they have on order being delivered over a minimum period of 10 years and a maximum of 15. I hear they have a similar deal with Boeing on the Triple 7's. You have to remember that even though Emirates is ordering large numbers of aircraft, the last of these is not expected to be delivered until 2020! That's a long way off in Airline terms, especially when you consider that a prestige carrier like Emirates will probably be retiring the first planes of this order before the last one is delivered! It also a widely toted fact that Emirates got such a good deal on the A380 that it was almost imposssible for them to refuse as Airbus was desperate to get a large order on the books.

True Lufthansa has placed firm orders for 15 but they have options on what is believed to be 10 more and there are roumours as they were an early customer on the 747-400 (they have been flying the 400 series for something like 17 years almost) that they will be planning to order the replacements for the entire fleet in the next 18 months these commitments have not been assigned to Airbus although it is believed that they are under a lot of pressure to buy European and as they have a large Airbus fleet anyway, this is likely although I bet Boeing are driving a hard deal! This could total something like 30 aircraft!

[EHM-1617 Iain]

A little bit of a problem here for the A380: wake vortices. They were hoping that it would increase PAX per RWY per HOUR, but now initial surverys are suggesting it will need about 10 miles spacing on approach due to extreme wake vortices. This is especially a problem at EGLL, where aircraft are crammed in as close as 2 miles if the vortex rules allow it, but with an A380 that's needing 10 the PAX/RWY/HR rate will be decreased.

http://www.flightinternational.com/Articles/2005/11/23/Navigation/177/203231/ICAO+warns+on+A380+wake+vortices.html

[EHM-1760 Sven]

I think the A380 needs a new catecory like super heavy aircraft:o:o:o

10nm = 18,5 km and 15nm= 27,8km for all other phases of flight including en-route that are a long distances

that is not only a problem in EGLL I think that is a problem for all big airports but the ATC will get along with it I am sure
A 747-400 or a MD 11 or A340 probably don't need such a long distances.

[EHM-1001 Robert]

I am a bit confused now... I saw a 2 hours document film on Discovery Channel about building the A380. It was told there, the vortex problem caused a lot of problem to the developers. But then, they implemented the new winglets, and they reduced the vortex size, reaching 1 minute gap for takeoff, which is absolutely normal at heavy aircrafts. And in low altitude, you can fly only about 4 miles within1 minute, not 10 !

So how is it ? The new winglet was only a marketing trick ?

[EHM-1617 Iain]

Yes, I believe I saw the same documentary Robert. I don't know why this is happening, but I hope for Airbus' sake that it won't need 10 miles - that could be devastating.

[EHM-1651 Christian]

Well I don't think Airbus would try to place false info for an marketing trick, it would sertainly have an impact on their reputation  so i think what they say are after the result of the modeltesting that was shown in the program.
Is true and it will certainly be tested in the flightcertification program.
Anyone know the sepration for the AN-225 wich are in the same size, and have no winglets to reduse the vortex?

Airbus has also been coordinating the "AWIATOR” programme
This programme is about reducing vortex among other things
See link:
http://www.airbus.com/en/presscentre/pressreleases/pressreleases_items/08_29_03_AWIATOR.html] Some info on AWIATOR

But if the wake vortex is going to be a problem for the A380 it must also become a problem for the new 747 version to when it having it's weight increase??
In the end of the day of the day this won't be such a big problem as it seems as the A380 won't be flying in and out of airports every 5min.

And a problem is there to be solved........
A little of topic but anyway.
Many other places espacially in the Us it seems the be very important to be very happy with everything Boeing does and whatever Airbus does it's just crap???

But anyhow none had faith in the first 747's either but they have been here for a long time no so lets wait an see:P:P

[EHM-1821 Javier]

I've just checked out the 225 but it said this:  The wing is clean, having no fences and no vortex generators.   Can that be possible?

[EHM-1821 Javier]

http://aerodyn.org/History/an225.html is the website ifound the info on