Author Topic: BA flight lands short of runway  (Read 11123 times)

EHM-2029 Sotiris

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BA flight lands short of runway
« on: January 17, 2008, 01:55:55 pm »
Developing story - Hot off the press

It looks like a BA flight touched down a touch too early.
No victims reported though, always a good one that!

Quote from the site:
Passengers have been led to safety after a passenger jet landed short of the runway at Heathrow Airport.
The plane was British Airways flight BA38 from Beijing to London.

Six ambulances were sent to the scene and three people are being reported for minor injuries. Emergency services remain at the scene.


Link:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7194086.stm

Offline EHM-0654 Murray

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BA flight lands short of runway
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2008, 04:35:03 pm »
A B777, BA and the BAA are praising the crew for the excellent job they did getting the plane down safely and getting it evacuated. The BBC page has (to my mind) conflicting reasons given for the short landing, just have to wait for the CAA crash report.

And for those of us living in the southern flightpath, it's really obvious there's been a problem from the huge spacing they're putting on inbound flights now.
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EHM-1821 Javier

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BA flight lands short of runway
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2008, 11:08:04 am »
My friend alerted me of the news after i got home last night, I thought the landing gear went through the wing, report says it broke off, possibly excess -VS?

Great job by the pilots to safely land the aircraft with everyone surviving! I hope the cause is found soon and more hopefully that its not something wrong with the aircraft itself, with so many 777 operators, we won't want this to happen again...

Offline EHM-1749 Hector

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BA flight lands short of runway
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2008, 02:48:13 pm »
No power, no avionics on final. No fire after the crashlanding. Fuel Starvation?

Good pilots keep their number of landings equal to their number of takeoffs. Takeoffs are optional but landings are Mandatory.

Offline EHM-1465 Dominic

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BA flight lands short of runway
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2008, 05:21:49 pm »
Not a fuel problem apparently - they already mentioned that there was plenty of fuel in the tanks in the news reports...

There's always lots of speculation when these things happen, the only thing to do is wait for the investigation report. ;)
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Offline EHM-1883 Matt

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BA flight lands short of runway
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2008, 05:53:35 pm »
hmm, maybe it's just one of those special ones where there was a missing link in the plane, and it just gave up!

Hats off to the pilot;D

Offline EHM-1703 Philip

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BA flight lands short of runway
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2008, 10:39:42 pm »
OK, Initial report is out from the AAIB.... Not very informative as expected but at least it is now taking the heat off the crew and pointing more towards a technical or computer issue... I can't understand why the AT requests for thrust went unanswered, that's a bit scary to only find a hole like this in the systems after 10 years of flying!!! I bet there are some nervous people around Boeing and Rolls Royce respective headquarters this weekend!

Report is available here:
http://www.aaib.dft.gov.uk/latest_news/accident__heathrow_17_january_2008___initial_report.cfm
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Offline EHM-1651 Christian

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BA flight lands short of runway
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2008, 10:48:25 am »
Check out this but this is concerning the GE-90 engines on the B77L and B77W.

Could be the same for the B772ER aswell

http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAD.nsf/0/0DD44FE2BEB1F516862571F9006B5DAD?OpenDocument&Highlight=2006-20-51

The AD covering the engine software failure on the B77L and B77W
EHM-1651 CHRISTIAN BAKKE "A pilots ego equals the wingspan" Stated by a Captain of Widerøe

EHM-2029 Sotiris

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BA flight lands short of runway
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2008, 01:35:41 pm »
It could be but BA is all Rolls Royce Trent equipped.
Very very strange incident this one.
Yet it also demonstrates the safety margins to which planes are built today.
All I can say is these guys were truly amazingly lucky. At an approach speed of say 160 mph, all you need to think is what would happen had they touched land a mere two seconds earlier....

Offline EHM-1703 Philip

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BA flight lands short of runway
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2008, 01:40:40 pm »
Well that report said that the particular problem occurred on take off rolls and only affected one engine although the more we become reliant on software in these aircraft the more routines and bugs there can be in the system. I would have thought a software issue would have shown up somewhere else before now with so many 777 in service and a large number of them using RR Trent 800's.

I suppose if it is something linked to the way the FADEC deals with wind shear I suppose it could be a rare problem to simulate.... It would seem from PPrune that a weather related Wind Shear or Microburst is being heavily touted as a contributing factor.

According to some sources (go to the IVAO GB forums for a source at Heathrow ATC!!) the cause is already known although the information is being kept from the public until the official report is made which will probably be months away from now! As no grounding or AD is forthcoming from Boeing or Rolls Royce one can only assume that the issue was not technical and was either Human or Weather related. (That is a rather large assumption based on not a lot of fact but rather hearsay and only holds water if indeed that "source" is correct)
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Offline EHM-1749 Hector

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BA flight lands short of runway
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2008, 03:24:20 pm »
Boeing 777 Heathrow Crash Update

An initial report offered by the Air Accidents Investigation Branch Friday said interviews with crew and analysis of the "Flight Recorder" aboard the British Airways Boeing 777 200ER that crashed Thursday at Heathrow indicate the aircraft's engines did not respond to commands from the autothrottle or the flight crew. First Officer John Coward, the flying pilot, told reporters he glided the big airliner to the grass. "Suddenly there was nothing from any of the engines, and the plane started to glide. I didn't think we'd clear the fence at first. As we landed I was bracing myself for an enormous thud. But instead of one thud, there was a series of thuds as it bounced along the grass. Eventually it shuddered to a halt. While I was trying to stop the plane, I struggled to try and keep it in a straight line." So far, fuel levels appear to have been adequate, as "a significant amount of fuel leaked from the aircraft, but there was no fire," according to the report. The lack of throttle response occurred at approximately 600 feet and two miles out, ultimately planting the 777 about 1,000 feet shy of Heathrow's Runway 27L. None of the 136 passengers and 16 crew aboard were seriously injured. The aircraft's right mains separated and the left mains were pushed up through the wing root. Capt. Peter Burkill praised his co-pilot's performance as a "most remarkable job."
Source: AvWeb

Good pilots keep their number of landings equal to their number of takeoffs. Takeoffs are optional but landings are Mandatory.

Offline EHM-1703 Philip

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BA flight lands short of runway
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2008, 03:13:36 pm »
I am sure many of you have seen it, but just in case.....

Heathrows new landing Lights are installed and operational.
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Offline EHM-2155 Mariano

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BA flight lands short of runway
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2008, 03:29:08 pm »
Omg black humour xD
Funny, only cos noone died :P

Offline EHM-0654 Murray

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BA flight lands short of runway
« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2008, 04:22:16 pm »
Well, latest report out of the AAIB is that they have confirmed that the engines were still running when it "splashed down". They have also confirmed that the engines weren't responding to throttle inputs (guessing the flight data recorder has told them all this...)
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Offline EHM-1001 Robert

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BA flight lands short of runway
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2008, 06:15:53 pm »
I have just heard it on TV ! According to latest investigations, the engines were shutted down, because a passenger mobile phone disturbed the FADEC engine controller. The computer shutted down causing the engines to shut down as well.

Sounds quite stupid, but who knows...

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Offline EHM-1465 Dominic

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BA flight lands short of runway
« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2008, 09:18:29 pm »
According to 'Flight International' the most likely scenario is fuel contamination with water in the fuel freezing in the cruise then thawing out into a slush during descent and interfering with fuel flow...

The investigators have already confirmed that the engine software etc was working fine so the mobile phone theory isn't based on any facts (but obviously makes for a good story in the news ;))
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Offline EHM-1001 Robert

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BA flight lands short of runway
« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2008, 10:39:31 pm »
That sounds more logical, although it is weird, why the problem occured at only 200 metres from ground. Not to mention that fuel is preheated before it got into the combustion chamber, so it should occur much earlier, I believe.

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EHM-1612 Paolo

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BA flight lands short of runway
« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2008, 04:16:38 pm »
How long does an investigation usually take?? Months? Years?? :%

Offline EHM-1465 Dominic

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BA flight lands short of runway
« Reply #18 on: February 03, 2008, 06:28:57 pm »
It's impossible to say from the outside Paolo - it will take them as long as they need to prove (as precisely as possible) what did cause the crash AND rule out what didn't...

A lot of money in insurance claims plus the reputations of aircraft & engine manufacturers, airlines and their training regimes depend on what these investigations decide so you can be sure it won't be rushed!
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Offline EHM-1001 Robert

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BA flight lands short of runway
« Reply #19 on: February 03, 2008, 06:33:31 pm »

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EHM-2066 Miguel

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BA flight lands short of runway
« Reply #20 on: February 29, 2008, 06:53:28 pm »
The problem might be with the fuel lines, there were pieces of several metals found in the tank that were forgotten by ground mechanics 1 year agora

EHM-0641 Rico

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BA flight lands short of runway
« Reply #21 on: March 03, 2008, 06:42:52 am »
This is interesting...

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2008/02/29/221923/american-investigates-as-777-engine-fails-to-respond-to-throttle.html

Same problem, only this time overseas and with a better ending ..

Offline EHM-0654 Murray

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BA flight lands short of runway
« Reply #22 on: March 03, 2008, 08:47:09 pm »
Oooh... same type, same engine type, similar symptoms (only one engine tho, luckily enough)... looks like boing and RR have a shed-load of diagnostics to run.
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Offline EHM-1749 Hector

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BA flight lands short of runway
« Reply #23 on: September 04, 2008, 05:36:38 pm »
National Transportation Safety Board
Washington, DC 20594

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: September 4, 2008
SB-08-37

************************************************************

NTSB CHAIRMAN EMPHASIZES INTERNATIONAL COOPERATION IN
BRITISH BOEING 777 RECOMMENDATIONS

************************************************************

Washington, DC - National Transportation Safety Board Acting
Chairman Mark V. Rosenker today praised the work of all the
investigators looking into the crash of a Boeing 777 at
London's Heathrow Airport in January, saying that the
recommendations issued today "show how international
cooperation can lead to safety improvements that benefit the
aviation community worldwide."

The United Kingdom's Air Accidents Investigation Branch
(AAIB), which is leading the investigation into the January
17, 2008, accident in which a British Airways Boeing 777-
236ER landed short of Runway 27L at London Heathrow Airport,
issued an interim report today on the progress of the
investigation.

The interim report contains recommendations aimed at
addressing a circumstance identified by investigators
relating to Rolls Royce-powered Boeing 777 aircraft.  The
investigation has shown that both engines lost power in the
final minute of flight because the fuel flow to each engine
was restricted; most probably due to an accumulation of ice
within the engine fuel feed system. The ice is likely to
have formed from water - which exists naturally in the fuel
- while the aircraft operated for a long period, with low
fuel flows, in the cold environment associated with high-
altitude flight.

In accordance with established international arrangements,
the National Transportation Safety Board, representing the
State of Design and Manufacture of the aircraft, appointed
an Accredited Representative to participate in the
investigation.  The Accredited Representative is being
supported by a U.S. team that includes NTSB specialists, the
Federal Aviation Administration, and Boeing.  Rolls-Royce,
the engine manufacturer, is also participating in the
investigation. British Airways, the operator, is cooperating
with the investigation and providing expertise as requested
by the AAIB.

This interim report updates and provides further details on
the history of the flight and the research done by teams in
both the U.K. and U.S. using data obtained from the accident
aircraft, and similar aircraft in the British Airways fleet.
The report further details the aircraft fuel systems and
describes testing performed in laboratories, on an adapted
fuel rig using actual aircraft components, in an engine test
facility, and on an exemplar engine.  In conclusion, the
report provides recommendations for both interim action and
longer term changes to certification criteria.

Acting Chairman Rosenker stated, "When it comes to aviation
safety, there are shared interests that transcend national
borders."  Rosenker noted that the U.S. Accredited
Representative and technical advisors fully participated in
the development of the factual material and supporting
research and that the recommendations are supported by the
U.S. team.

The investigation team indicated that a change to the fuel
system design would make the system more resilient, but
would take time to implement. Therefore, to reduce the risk
of recurrence interim measures need to be adopted until such
design changes to the fuel system are available.

Therefore, the AAIB recommends that:

The Federal Aviation Administration and the European
Aviation Safety Agency, in conjunction with Boeing and Rolls
Royce, introduce interim measures for the Boeing 777,
powered by Rolls Royce Trent 800 engines, to reduce the risk
of ice formed from water in aviation turbine fuel causing a
restriction in the fuel feed system (AAIB 2008-047), that

The Federal Aviation Administration and the European
Aviation Safety Agency should take immediate action to
consider the implications of the findings of this
investigation on other certificated airframe/engine
combinations (AAIB 2008-048), and that

The Federal Aviation Administration and the European
Aviation Safety Agency review the current certification
requirements to ensure that aircraft and engine fuel systems
are tolerant to the potential build up and sudden release of
ice in the fuel system (AAIB 2008-049).

The AAIB report is available at:
http://www.aaib.dft.gov.uk/cms_resources/G-YMMM%20Interim%20Report.pdf

Good pilots keep their number of landings equal to their number of takeoffs. Takeoffs are optional but landings are Mandatory.

 

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