Author Topic: A TimeTable error and the corrections  (Read 2887 times)

Offline EHM-2198 Didimo

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A TimeTable error and the corrections
« on: April 20, 2008, 08:11:45 pm »
I was just browsing through the latest flights and LO and behold! two airports of my homeland! I didn't think EHM flew there.

There are some problems/oversights though at least with the flight I looked up (EHM-W037):

1. The flight information page says that both MPHO and MPBO are in "Mexico" and that is totally wrong :( the correct country is "Panama". The same goes for any airport with MP*

2. I almost fell off my captain's chair when I saw that for this MPBO-MPHO flight people were flying: Boeing 757, Airbus 319, Fokker 70.

The thing is, maybe (just maybe) a F-70 can take off from MPBO but a 757 or Airbus definitely not. Not even a 737-200. It is a small narrow airfield in a small island to which only small planes and turboprops fly (or can land/take off).

In Panama there are only two (2) airports suitable for "large" jets and these are Tocumen (MPTO) and Howard (MPHO). Howard was formerly an Air Force Base (long long ago) and is now being used as alternate as well as some charter flights from US/Canada.

The only two other international airports are David (MPDA) and Bocas (MPTO) however both of these are only suitable for small a/c and turboprops. Of these two only MPDA has capability (room) for expansion and in fact it is being expanded by local authorities. Both of these two take "international" traffic from Costa Rica but that is about it.

Offline EHM-0654 Murray

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A TimeTable error and the corrections
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2008, 09:26:51 pm »
Thanks for the info Didimo, I'll fix that ASAP.
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Offline EHM-2097 Andrei

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A TimeTable error and the corrections
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2008, 08:55:03 am »
Well, I think I am one of those "people"  as I just completed this leg with the Eurobusiness A318. First of all, a few remarks:

1) There was no cheat whatsoever, "my" A318 actually landed and took off at MPBO;

2) While planing the leg this way, I felt it would just work, and my intention was definitely not to throw people off their chairs ;D

3) My landing at MPBO was not a very glorious one, I tried to do a VOR approach but somehow managed to get off the proper glide slope, so I eventually shut down in the grass, unable to stop completely on the runway. However, I think this landing is possible with no problem for a better pilot than me :)

Now, this being said, I have all the reasons in the world to believe Didimo knows better what can or cannot be operated at this airport, so there must be an error. But where?

Not a timetable issue for sure, because the tour rules stipulate you can fly any leg with any aircraft (that is, anything between a C172 and a A388), so it's up to every pilot's skills... and wisdom.

Which leaves two "suspects": the runway and the aircraft.

In fact, for an A318 it's hard to tell because the aircraft should be able to take off on any runway longer than 5000ft while MPBO is just slightly shorter. The difference can easily be associated to the low amount of fuel on board.

In fact, the tour leg is short enough that I think the most unrealistic thing is to use a jet for this distance!

And maybe I should add a third suspect to the list: myself. Being aware of the short runway, I indulged myself into some procedures that are certainly non-standard for an A318 but work well in FS:

1) I initially positioned the aircraft at the VERY beginning of the runway (that is, with the tail over grass);

2) I only started rolling when the engines were at full thrust.

I have no doubts everything would work the same with the F70, which allows for even shorter runways, but I cannot comment on the B757 which I seldom fly.

Andrei
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Offline EHM-2198 Didimo

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A TimeTable error and the corrections
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2008, 12:54:34 pm »
Sorry, I did not imply that you cheated Andrei (didn't know it was you either) or that the flight did not take place (it is a virtual world after all). MPBO is indeed a short spartan (without communications facilities AFAIK) airfield that barely has made it to the website of the local civil aviation authority website (http://www.aeronautica.gob.pa/).

In real life an airbus would not be allowed there and I doubt it would take off or land without ending on the Bay of Bocas del Toro as an appendage to local marine life. Bocas is now a favourite tourist destination for those who go "off the beaten path".

Simulation however is sometimes a totally different cookie. I have had planes that took off by themselves on full thrust ;-) I suppose it has to do with how "real" the flight model is.

Of course, weight is definitely a variable but in real life the operating carriers fly there with either of DHC6 Twin Otter, Cessna Grand Caravan or some other small a/c. The Dash 8-Q300 and F50 a/c fly from MPMG (Marcos A. Gelabert) or David (MPDA).

In Panama city there are only three major and/or busy airports:

Tocumen (MPTO): the original and still current international airport. It is the latinamerican hub of Copa Airlines (partner of Continental) which acquired AeroRepublica (Colombia). Also receives flights from some other companies such as IBERIA flying from Madrid (A330) or KLM direct from Amsterdam (MD-11). Tocumen has been modernized in the last few years and there are plans for further expansion to acomodate larger aircraft.

Albrook/Marcos Gelabert (MPMG): Used as hub for all regional flights to all over the republic. Formerly an US airforce base (Albrook) but after the handover of the Panama Canal the former Paitilla airport was dismantled and urbanized and all the operations were moved to Albrook which then opened as MPMG.

Howard (MPHO). Until recently it was an industrial terrain (Dell has a major call center there) but has now opened as alternate and some international charter flights. A major aeronautical consortium from Singapore has opened operations there for aircraft maintenance.

ATC feeds of Tocumen and/or Albrook are available on liveatc.net.

Sadly the scenery of Panama on MSFS (FS9/FSX) is just astoundily uninteresting, not even the Panama Canal was reproduced properly. However some scenery as well as charts and other info are available from the link shown below.

http://www.virtual-aviation.info/FIR/Panama/
http://www.PanamaSights.com/