Author Topic: Wild division tour, online legs discussion  (Read 28994 times)

Offline EHM-2155 Mariano

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Wild division tour, online legs discussion
« on: October 28, 2010, 05:01:35 pm »
Hello fellow pilots...

This thread is to discuss when and where to meet to fly legs online (be it IVAO or VATSIM)

Starting wtih leg 3...

I plan to fly it tomorrow, friday the 29th, time is flexible, from 12.00z to 20.00z I'll be available to fly on IVAO.


Who ever is interested to do the flight online, write below with your schedule, the sooner the better so we can agree on a start time (I shoud have created this thread some days ago already I realize)

See you in the sky!

Offline EHM-2589 David

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Re: Wild division tour, online legs discussion
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2010, 05:32:12 pm »
For me is over leg 3, but if is possible to fly again the same leg in PP I'll be at KFMN friday around 1915 GMT :) by IVAO of course ;)
« Last Edit: October 28, 2010, 05:41:23 pm by EHM-2589 David »

Offline EHM-1997 Alexander

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Re: Wild division tour, online legs discussion
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2010, 06:02:37 pm »
I think you can fly the leg again, but as a normal flight, not on propilot.

Flight Logger 4 should do this as Murray re-flew a leg earlier this week.
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Offline EHM-0654 Murray

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Re: Wild division tour, online legs discussion
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2010, 06:07:06 pm »
I certainly did refly Leg 2, but didn't bother with attempting to record it as an ordinary flight.
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Offline EHM-2589 David

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Re: Wild division tour, online legs discussion
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2010, 06:18:24 pm »
Thanks, I'll tried with FL4 by IVAO: friday 29 around 1915 GMT :)

Offline EHM-1997 Alexander

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Re: Wild division tour, online legs discussion
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2010, 06:52:58 pm »
I certainly did refly Leg 2, but didn't bother with attempting to record it as an ordinary flight.

Ah, in this case you may not be able to log the flight hours when re-flying then. I think it would have to be in the non-event timetable for this to be possible.

Although if the propilot portion fails on flogger 4 it will be submitted as a non pp flight with flight time and then you can refly it as pp again.
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Offline EHM-2155 Mariano

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Re: Wild division tour, online legs discussion
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2010, 09:34:47 pm »
Well, whomever has flown this one particular leg and wants to join in, logging the flight as a normal flight or not logging it at all, they're welcome of course...


Offline EHM-2387 Eric-Jan

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Re: Wild division tour, online legs discussion
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2010, 09:49:08 pm »
I had planned my leg 3 for this Friday somewhat 1900(Z)-ish, so that should come together nicely!
I'll keep an eye out for you guys on IVAO.
 8)
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Offline EHM-1829 Trevor

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Re: Wild division tour, online legs discussion
« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2010, 12:44:28 am »
Hi Folks
I have been working back shift this week finishing at 23:00hrs, so won't be able to make Friday evening :(  , but hope to catch you all on leg4.

Good idea with the thread Mariano ;)

Offline EHM-0654 Murray

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Re: Wild division tour, online legs discussion
« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2010, 09:13:20 am »
Hi Folks
I have been working back shift this week finishing at 23:00hrs, so won't be able to make Friday evening :(  , but hope to catch you all on leg4.

Good idea with the thread Mariano ;)

I'm probably good for Friday 19:00Z or a little after (or definitely Saturday if you want company Trevor). Still haven't tested voice under X-IVAP, so it'd useful to have a really quick voice session before or during.

UPDATE: Whether I make it or not, make sure the first pilot ready files a formation flight, that way you can all fly in one block on the same route with only one pilot having to talk to ATC ;) (Haven't done a formation in ages, but generally speaking first pilot uses "<callsign> plus <others>, blah", where <callsign> is the first pilot's callsign and <others> is the number of other planes in the formation, so "EHM-0654 plus 3, all Twin Otter, VFR to Canyonlands, request departure from active to the north".
« Last Edit: October 29, 2010, 12:52:49 pm by EHM-0654 Murray »
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Offline EHM-2155 Mariano

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Re: Wild division tour, online legs discussion
« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2010, 01:00:37 pm »
Will remember that if we get any kind of ATC at all... so far all our flights have been "in the dark" ;D

Offline EHM-0654 Murray

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Re: Wild division tour, online legs discussion
« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2010, 01:13:32 pm »
The other nice thing about formation, esp. when you're flying props (no wake to speak of) is you can do formation and/or vis. separation take offs. As each departing plane lifts from the runway, the next plane starts it's roll. ;D
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Offline EHM-1997 Alexander

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Re: Wild division tour, online legs discussion
« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2010, 01:20:46 pm »
I'm an IVAO virgin and the thought of controllers + SIDs and STARs on top of flying GA scare me.

Tempted though if its likely there'll be no controllers.
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Offline EHM-0654 Murray

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Re: Wild division tour, online legs discussion
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2010, 01:43:51 pm »
Come on Alex. If there are any controllers, I'll hang back and coach you through it :)

Flying online (even with controllers) is easy and fun at all but the most busy departure airports (where the majority of the workload for the pilot is). Until you feel comfortable with the whole online flying experience, just put "RMK/NEW PILOT" (or "RMK/IVAO NEWBIE" ;)) in your remarks and everyone will be extra patient with you. Plus, VFR GA, you don't need to talk to the controllers all that much; just a call to tower to say you want to depart, and a call to tower at the other end to say you want to join the circuit (and eventually, land).
« Last Edit: October 29, 2010, 02:27:31 pm by EHM-0654 Murray »
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Offline EHM-1997 Alexander

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Re: Wild division tour, online legs discussion
« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2010, 08:14:40 pm »
What's the status on a flight tonight?

I've grabbed Ivap for x-plane and ts2, although I assume that the ivao software will control ts from my nav frequency.
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Offline EHM-0654 Murray

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Re: Wild division tour, online legs discussion
« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2010, 10:10:18 pm »
We (David, E-J, Mariano  and myself) waited 'til 19:30 but didn't see you Alex.

Learned a few things about X-IVAP (which is nice) and Mariano and David discovered some inconsistencies in the FS9 DHC-6 (which is also nice, we can fix them now).

As promised to the guys, here's what I saw in X-Plane after landing ;)


Left to right (I think... I was last to land) are David, Mariano (both underground) then EJ. ;D
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Offline EHM-1997 Alexander

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Re: Wild division tour, online legs discussion
« Reply #16 on: October 29, 2010, 10:14:12 pm »
Ah, I didn't connect, was watching the forums for confirmation - my bad.

I saw you were on pp Murray so I flew the leg offline.

Better luck for me next time maybe  ;D
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Offline EHM-2387 Eric-Jan

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Re: Wild division tour, online legs discussion
« Reply #17 on: October 29, 2010, 10:31:21 pm »
I'm the one above gound, yes. Hehe :)
Didn't take any post-landing pictures, though... :(


These I did take:
Lining up rwy25 KFMN for a formation take-off (tower view)

TCAS is a nifty tool to keep track of the other ones in the formation. But after a bit you'll want to turn the sound off :o

Not sure if this is to be a picture thread, though.

Anyway, for next leg, I will dive into the whole teamspeak / voice comms bit to see if we can arrange a voice connection for the group, and (more importantly) how.
I expect my next leg KNCY-KPVU to be on Monday, 2000(Z)-ish. (21:00 LT in the Netherlands)
Remember to put your clocks back an hour this weekend!
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Offline EHM-1997 Alexander

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Re: Wild division tour, online legs discussion
« Reply #18 on: October 29, 2010, 10:59:03 pm »
These were my x-plane 9 screens. Thought the canyon was beautiful


« Last Edit: October 29, 2010, 11:04:58 pm by EHM-1997 Alexander »
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Offline EHM-1465 Dominic

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Re: Wild division tour, online legs discussion
« Reply #19 on: October 29, 2010, 11:28:57 pm »
Mariano and David discovered some inconsistencies in the FS9 DHC-6 (which is also nice, we can fix them now).

What did you find gents?  :)
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Offline EHM-2589 David

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Re: Wild division tour, online legs discussion
« Reply #20 on: October 30, 2010, 10:43:43 am »
Hi Dominic, in my case I fly very fast in comparison with the other gays who flow in formation around 130 KIAS, then in the approach I lost 1 engine ???
Thanks for your comments ;)

Offline EHM-2589 David

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Re: Wild division tour, online legs discussion
« Reply #21 on: October 30, 2010, 01:03:47 pm »
Quote
I expect my next leg KNCY-KPVU to be on Monday, 2000(Z)
I'm not sur for monday, but I'll tried today and if I can monday I'll be at KNCY 20:15 GMT in normal flight ;) by IVAO of course, but I don't have voice, or could be tried text and receive voice, is new for me ???
« Last Edit: October 30, 2010, 01:13:21 pm by EHM-2589 David »

Offline EHM-1829 Trevor

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Re: Wild division tour, online legs discussion
« Reply #22 on: October 30, 2010, 06:54:14 pm »
 

   I will have to fly Leg3 tomorrow as I am being dragged out for
   dinner tonight.  :)

Offline EHM-2155 Mariano

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Re: Wild division tour, online legs discussion
« Reply #23 on: October 31, 2010, 12:48:52 am »
What did you find gents?  :)

Hey Dom...
I'm gonna write quickly what I remember before I fall asleep on my keyboard
Basically, the plane is just too powerful and has an imperial ton of lift.

On full throttles and with the stick pulled full back, the plane will not stall. It pitches up about 30-40 degrees, gains some altitude and loses speed, then the nose drops to level, and then it will pitch up again once it reaches 80 or so knots, and keep climbing. I've never flown in one of these before but I'm pretty sure that's not possible.

What Murray is referring to is mostly it's straight line speed. I had no problem pushing my throttle to full and leaving Murray's plane (which i'm sure was far better simmed) behind by a large margin, him doing 115 knots indicated at about 90% throttle (correct me if wrong Murray) and me doing 160, 165 indicated... groundspeed 200+.
The worst part was trying to maintain formation with Murray and E-J, cos the slightest touch in my throttle meant going from 100 IAS to 130, I kept having to forward and retard it constantly to keep at 110.

The last but not least of my problems is the plane's behaviour when under flaps. With 20 or 30 flaps (I know it doesnt need that much at landing), an increase in throttle will make it pitch down rather violently. It has a lot of lift even in slow speeds which makes it rather tricky to land, I go in to the landing with negative pitch which in every way you look at it, it's wrong. I don't know at which IAS the plane will fly on but I'm pretty sure the difference between too much lift and a stall is quite small. And then when you notice the danger of stalling, you advance the throttle, and as I said before, it pitches down on it's own.

So yeah I hope that gives you some clues on where to look, sorry for the verbosity, when I'm looking for problems I like having as much info as I can.

Offline EHM-1465 Dominic

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Re: Wild division tour, online legs discussion
« Reply #24 on: October 31, 2010, 01:53:31 am »
Thanks gents, I'll look into these observations. The PAD Twin Otter has been out for a long time now so I figured the dynamics would have already been looked at by them and their fan base (and I know there have been some tweaks) but it certainly sounds like the plane needs some adjustments ;)

@ David - the loss of an engine must be down to failures being set. Do you fly with random failures set up? I know it's one of those features that PP was supposed to have but to be honest I'm not sure if its realised...

EDIT - There are some very useful documents on THIS PAGE which could help, particularly the performance specs which make it clear the PAD model is indeed overpowered at the altitudes we are flying at in the Event. Now all I have to do is work out which settings to change to alter the flight envelope the right way...  ;D
« Last Edit: October 31, 2010, 01:17:51 am by EHM-1465 Dominic »
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