Sorry, there goes another

[EHM-1617 Iain]

I would like to publically apologise for my FS randomly crashing an airplane on touchdown at EHAM. Here is a copy of the crash report.

And I am actually telling the truth, those of you who don't believe me

This was a crash on touchdown. Flight was good, otherwise no penalties. On final 18R at EHAM. Approach speed was calculated at 150KIAS with 1 notch below full flaps. Speed at touchdown was about 145KIAS, nose up pitch angle 5 degrees, landed softly, the FS randomly says crash and this happens. Was definately not my fault, speed was normal, gear was down, flaps were normal, and pitch was normal. Maybe this was because of the model (it was my first flight with the 767) or maybe it was because of the addon scenery I have for this runway as it is not default (but I don't think so because of I have landed the 737 on this runway many times). Dunno what happened, just a random crash on touchdown. Sorry, there goes another.

It wasn't my fault :$

[EHM-0654 Murray]

Iain,

By any chance, were you landing on the Polderbaan (the "new" one that's NW of the terminal...) 'cause on my install, that rwy hasn't been correctly smoothed, nor the taxiways that lead out to it.

I stick by the advice Gergely gave in the original online flying manual - turn off crash detection when flying online.

[EHM-1617 Iain]

Yeah I was landing the new RWY but never had probs before. I do have crash detect off but apparently the FL can detect crashes anyway even if its turned off. It was turned off at the time.

[EHM-1150 Armando]

My dear friends, even if crash detection is deactivated by default, when using PP crash detection is activated automaticaly; sorry but that's the only way we can get much of the reality we try to achieve.

The good thing is that we can see people worried about crashing an aircraft and trying to be better the next time... don't give up, instead give it a try for a better next time.

If you crash an aircraft and you know it wasn't you fault then don't worry... hey this is just a game

Safe landings
Armando Chibante

[EHM-0654 Murray]

You little tinker Armando! Turning on crash detection without telling me... I shall be *very* careful when taxiing now, and I'm sorry EHAM, but I won't be visiting you until I can get a fixed Polderbaan and taxiways leading out to it...

[EHM-1281 Cyriel]

I have the nl2002 scenery for eham and that seems to be working fine. you can download it at http://www.nl-2000.com/nuke/

it is a hefty 300mb or something like that btw.

[EHM-1703 Philip]

I haven't had a crash there but I agree the runway smoothing does seem to be a little out as I took an A330 out of there last night and 18R does seem quite bumpy.

Phil Nutt
EHm1703

[EHM-0654 Murray]

Cyriel,

That's the scenery I'm using, but I thought it didn't include Polderbaan per default; I used the add-on from the NL2000 website.

Think I'll take another look...

[EHM-1744 Danny]

This crash-detection is very nice.... for statistics!
But isn't it a littlebit to hard to block a pilot's account when he/she is crashed? I think this could cost you some pilot's...! Every pilot in here wants to fly! But when someone crashes he can not fly for a couple of days.... Does pilots will go to another VA where they can fly as much as they like....

This can't be the meaning of crash-detection...:{

[EHM-1670 Bill]

Originally posted by conimus
This crash-detection is very nice.... for statistics!
But isn't it a littlebit to hard to block a pilot's account when he/she is crashed? I think this could cost you some pilot's...! Every pilot in here wants to fly! But when someone crashes he can not fly for a couple of days.... Does pilots will go to another VA where they can fly as much as they like....

This can't be the meaning of crash-detection...:{

I'm afraid I'm with you on this. I haven't flown for a while because I am awaiting a final decision when enough flights have taken place and a decision made. I am with my other VA at the moment but have no desire to leave this but am not happy at the suspension rule. This is meant to be fun.

[EHM-1703 Philip]

Correct me if I'm wrong but if you crash, I thought you were only suspended from making Pro Pilot flights. You can still make regular flights from the timetable and file them as normal, just don't press the pro pilot button on the flight logger! (over half the flights being flown by the VA are not Pro Pilot flights) This is still the same as flying for any other VA as I believe we are the only VA with the Pro Pilot system. (Therefore there is no need to switch to another VA) The flights still clock up your hours flown and are still filed in the way they were before we switched to Pro Pilot.

I personally believe there should be some penalty for crashing a plane, I have crashed once but unfortunately this was due to an unresponsive program I had running on my PC. My flight status was immediatley returned after I contacted the Hub Manager but if it had not, it wouldnt have been the end of the world, I could have still flown.  

I also agree that the fun element should be retained, but to me, trying not to crash a plane adds a bit more fun to my experience.

This is just my opinion.

Cheers & safe landings!

Phil Nutt

[EHM-1703 Philip]

Just as an addition to the above, I have just checked and 52 planes have been lost in a little over 2 weeks. When you compare this to the fact that less than 400 flights have been filed on Pro Pilot it sort of explains why some form of penalty is required as far as I can see.

Cheers,

Phil Nutt
EHM1703

[EHM-0654 Murray]

EDIT: Phil posted his replies while I was writing this one...

Guys

ProPilot is meant just as that, a facility for those looking for far more professionalism than the average VA.

Do you think real-world pilots just walk away from an especially hard landing? No, at the very least they have page upon page of accident/maintenance reports to write out. For anything more they are expected to spend time away from the cockpit, in some cases in the simulator retraining.

We thought long and hard about the penalties and suspensions. For a while there were none, and after a week we had 20 airplanes in pieces! They may only be data, but it still takes the fleet manager time to add them to the ProPilot database.

Is it really so much to ask that pilots who are involved in some sort of accident take the time to explain what happened and why (in their own words)  and if necessary, take a little time off from ProPilot?

[EHM-1744 Danny]

Origineel gepost door Murray Crane
Guys

ProPilot is meant just as that, a facility for those looking for far more professionalism than the average VA.

Do you think real-world pilots just walk away from an especially hard landing? No, at the very least they have page upon page of accident/maintenance reports to write out. For anything more they are expected to spend time away from the cockpit, in some cases in the simulator retraining.

We thought long and hard about the penalties and suspensions. For a while there were none, and after a week we had 20 airplanes in pieces! They may only be data, but it still takes the fleet manager time to add them to the ProPilot database.

Is it really so much to ask that pilots who are involved in some sort of accident take the time to explain what happened and why (in their own words)  and if necessary, take a little time off from ProPilot?

I think that it has to be fun to fly. When a pilot crashes a plane, give him/her penalty points or something like that.(FAC)
But let him/her fly with PP.

[EHM-0654 Murray]

Originally posted by conimus
I think that it has to be fun to fly. When a pilot crashes a plane, give him/her penalty points or something like that.(FAC)
But let him/her fly with PP.

Think we'll have to agree to disagree, Danny.

<NotStaff>
Taking off my staff "uniform" for a bit, my opinion; if pilots are only looking for fun, don't use ProPilot. ProPilot wasn't designed for fun, it was designed for those that want to to take it a little bit more seriously.
</NotStaff>

I look forward to my PP flights, I take them as seriously as my hardware and setup allows, and I've only ever flown two planes on PP (that I knew very well prior to flying them under PP).

[EHM-0948 Bruno]

Hi,

I just want to subscribe Murray Crane's words.

ProPilot is for pilots who wants to do flights in a more serious way.
If you want to fly as the other VA's then use our offline timetable as in the past. If not, then you need to follow (and accept) ProPilot rules.

Also, it makes me happy to see that you guys wanna fly! But, now, next time you do a flight you'll be twice focused on the flight and not just "hey, I crashed an airplane, who cares?" ...

Regards,

Keep up flying. Next weekend we are going to "buy" more airplanes.

Regards,

[EHM-1703 Philip]

LOL Dare I ask what the budget is Bruno?

[EHM-0948 Bruno]

,

The budget is unlimited.

On ProPilot v2 we will control this values too. We will control all. All pilots will have a monthly payment, the flights will also be virtual payed, etc etc.

But that's for version 2 ... on next year ... and when we have less airplanes crashed ...

Regards,

[EHM-1358 Tim]

Im hooked on Pro-pilot.

Done three flights with it. Two I got 0 score. My aim... beat Razza! :]

[EHM-1617 Iain]

Woah... I seem to have started off for a hot topic here.

I must say I'm all up for the suspension. But if it is not the pilot's fault the the acft should not be removed from the fleet and the suspension period should be much shorter (or nonexistant), but less penalty points should be given in this case, bot the full 1000.

One thing I can't believe though is the rate at which we are losing these planes. My crash is already at the bottom of the list. I personally think that there should be a PP entry exam... e.g. make 3 consecutive flight, not crashed, with less than 200 average FAC, then you can start. If you crash, you have to retake this small 'exam'.

[EHM-1703 Philip]

thats a good idea Iain, I'm not sure how much work it would take to get it going or whether it would be possible at all.

Cheers,

Phil

Currently flying from EGLL to LSGG with loads of penalties.... DOH! :%

[EHM-1150 Armando]

As a co-developer of this system I participated actively in the discussion on the benefits of activating the max realism and crash detection on FS, so I'm glad to see that many people agree with the existence of such a tool, that can be used in a way of helping pilots to improve their skills.

What we do is to use what FS has as an option, and it should be looked as it is: an option more in our VA.

I already crashed 2 aircrafts in 3 PP flights, so, today I made a long flight LHBP-LPPT, out of PP, and got my hours added to my rank, had 2 penalties in local ACARS that I allways read during and after flying, and more important, got experienced with the aircraft and had much fun.

It's not the fact that I cannot report a fight in PP that will make me stop flying; I can allways fly as much as I want.

I repeat: PP isn't taking anything out of pilots, in the contrary, it's a new option.

Have fun and try to go up in the rank in PP.

Regards
Armando Chibante

[EHM-1651 Christian]

Euroharmony must be, the by far largest customer in the airliner buisness now... Having to replace all these aircrafts:]

Both the Airbus & Boeing CEO's must be extremly happy with our orders.....
Maybe we get some discount

[EHM-1744 Danny]

OK, but how do I send the pirep when I fly without using Pro Pilot?
And will I be visible at the ACARS map?

[EHM-1617 Iain]

Well flying not PP is much easier. Just don't reserve a flight, pick any flight you want in the logger, don't press the PP button and fly, and submit PIREP when you shut down (added by Murray).