Author Topic: Orient Express discussion Forum  (Read 53438 times)

Offline EHM-1442 Luis

  • FL100
  • ****
  • Posts: 130
  • Karma: 0
Orient Express discussion Forum
« Reply #75 on: September 23, 2007, 03:42:18 pm »
Hi...here we go again....

My scenery to LFPO don't have rwy24 (fs2004 default) so I inform that and ask if it is possible to take off on rwy25 in my scenery.
Answer from LPFO_TWR - 'Your FP is not correct'
I open my FP and didn't see anything wrong and ask for help from the controller.......And the answer come at once 'Go read the IVAO documentation'....Thank you for your help.









I need some help from the ATC experts here on EHM to clarify this.

Where is my FP wrong?......Maybe I don't have the sids fixes?
And if it this the reason...was it so hard to inform me?

Is it not  a presumption that the controller is there to guide and help the pilot?....Or the controller is there to fight against the pilot?

Please help me with my flight plan.......I have almost 2000 hours on IVAO.....maybe at this moment I'm blind or stupid, because I don't see that big mistake on my FP that justify that 'nice' answer from the controller.

For now, for me, fly on Ivao over France is out off question  

Thanks

Offline EHM-1883 Matt

  • Martian transfer
  • *******
  • Posts: 813
  • Karma: 0
Orient Express discussion Forum
« Reply #76 on: September 23, 2007, 08:08:58 pm »
Usually the controllers are very picky when it comes to the total EET and stuff like that, but I would've cleared that flightplan (everyone probably thinks I'm the worst controller now!)

I don't understand why he said read the documents even if there is a mistake in there, I mean that FP is detailed enough and there's no serious problems with it.

Don't blame the controller too much. I mean, we could get this from any division. I've had a few controllers tell me off when I know I'm correct. One made a major mistake of getting the even and odds mixed up with East and West (that was at Schipol which usually the service is excellent)
What I'm saying is don't judge the entire IVAO french division because one controller made a bad mistake (just for the record;D what rating was he?)

Offline EHM-1442 Luis

  • FL100
  • ****
  • Posts: 130
  • Karma: 0
Orient Express discussion Forum
« Reply #77 on: September 23, 2007, 10:38:12 pm »
Hi Matt

The Controller is a C1, as you can see on the last screenshot.

If he was a S1,S2 or even a S3...no problem.......but a C1, must be more responsible and with that kind of answer, I can be always making the same mistake over and over again....until I finds him again.

I think it was more usefull if he says 'correct your ETA' or put a remark like 'RMK Captain' or ' you don't have a sid fix' or wathever....

I think the answer for this are 2 single words I have in the FP Remarks... ' Only text'............ehehehehehe

Just for the record.....some years ago I was on Marseille to start a flight...I asked 5 times for clearence.....no answer from the controller...no traffic on the area.

After waiting about 20 minutes, I decide to start engines and taxi to the rwy h/p, arriving there...come the answer from the controller....'who gave  you clearence to start the flight?'......:o

'But i asked for it 5 times...'....'go back to the blocks where you were before taxi'...he says.

When I arrived on the blocks he asked me..'Are you on voice?'...'negative, on the moment I only can communicate by text'...I answered......
After some minutes arguing about text, voice and ivao rules and documentation he finally said to me ' I don't refuse to controll by text, but I have no interest on it, so you are cleared as filed'  :%

Now this Monsieur is a ivao supervisor........!!!

When I see words like Elitism, Ivao, Vatsim, friendship and there is always someone to help you....blah...blah...I stop a little to think about some storys that had happened with me on ivao network.
On the other hand I made some friendships too, on the ivao network.

Cheers

Offline EHM-2097 Andrei

  • Administrator
  • Intergalactic!!
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,968
  • Karma: 6
Orient Express discussion Forum
« Reply #78 on: September 24, 2007, 07:43:14 am »
Hi Luis,

First, I agree with you that this is not the kins of help one should expect from an ATC - no matter his rank.

I think however that I know what has upset this guy so much: your route looks like a VFR route (and definitely not like a correct IFR route) while the flight rules are marked "IFR".

As TWR & APP myself, in this case I would of course assume the pilot has forgot to change the flight rules, while (I guess) your TWR preferred to assume you have a badly built route. Maybe he did not notice your aircraft type either :)

And of course, whatever he found wrong in your FP, he should point it out inthe first place.

I admit text comm can be very frustrating for ATC, especially in hight traffic; sometimes this can lead to somewhat lower priority in comm, but there is no reason for not being polite and cooperative.

When dealing with "text only" I try indeed to reduce comm amount to the minimum, but when dealing with small FP problems this means being more tolerant, not giving riddles to pilots (which may prove I am a worse ATC than you Matt :) ).

About the ATC mistake Matt encountered at Schipol, I would say this is not what matters. We all make mistakes (I do, anyway, both as ATC and pilot) and I think we should "friendly" correct one another - and accept being corrected. What is definitely bad (and sad) is running into someone eager to demonstrate you are dumber than he is.

Once I had a pilot with a FP route obviously wrong (in real world, according to the charts, he was to exit TMA from a fix that is entry-only). I offered him help to corrrect but he replied he thinks the route is OK as it came from one of the major route databases. I did not believe him, but rather then argue I let him fly according to his plan. The day after I discovered he was wright, the route database provides indeed an incorrect route.

[Edit] This is a typo, I meant he was "right" not one of the Wright brothers. I am not THAT old (and I challenge anyone to pretend he provided ATC service for the Wrights).

And I cannot end without more bad news. You think you had problems with this guy because he had a too high rank, but be assured beginners can be as dangerous (it takes experience to understand you may be wrong yourself, not only all the others).

Cheers
Andrei
Andrei Vatasescu // EHM-2097


Offline EHM-0654 Murray

  • Administrator
  • Intergalactic!!
  • ***
  • Posts: 4,531
  • Karma: 5
  • VA Management
    • The Ponderings of PMUK
Orient Express discussion Forum
« Reply #79 on: September 24, 2007, 08:16:33 am »
Routing is very wide for such a long distance as Andrei says, a few more radio navigation points wouldn't overly hurt (I tend to use a RouteFinder routing since you're unlikely to ever get to in trouble for that...)

Your equipment list is missing a "W"

And lastly, your endurance is a little close to your duration for comfort.

:)
Murray Crane // EHM-0654 // Twitter
VA Management

KEEP CALM AND CARRY ON

Offline EHM-1442 Luis

  • FL100
  • ****
  • Posts: 130
  • Karma: 0
Orient Express discussion Forum
« Reply #80 on: September 24, 2007, 11:44:35 am »
I agree to both, my route is very wide and i don't have a sid fix....
Has I said before my LFPO scenery(fs2004 default) don't have rwy24 and this is the rwy for take off in the initial controller information, maybe if I put a fix, must be there another...so I removed the fix out of the route.......
I tried to find a scenery on avsim.....no chance......I tried in ivao french division...yes, but the links for the scnery are dead.

To change 'I' with 'V'...some days ago(second leg on the event)..a LFPG_APP said to me that VFR flights are forbidden in Paris area.......yesterday I saw on IVAE an announce of a VFR event in Le Bourget......(Is Le Bourget out of Paris area?)
So many details.......

About the 'W' in the equipment......
The 'W' means - RVSM(FL290-FL410) ...I think this must be there if you intend to fly above FL290. In this case my flight level is 7000ft.

About EET and Endurance......
This is a flight for about 2 hours...I estimated it (EET) for 3 hours (0300) and the Endurance I have there (0350)..more 50 minutes then the EET.

Finally I think that this ugly flight plan was useful for something......

Cheers

EHM-1500 Jim

  • Guest
Orient Express discussion Forum
« Reply #81 on: September 25, 2007, 03:30:24 pm »
Help...... my plane is at LFPO and i can't lock the next leg ???  The tail number is D-EHOX, when i click on it in pro-pilot page there are no flights to pick, please help asap or i will not get time to fly this leg.

Ta, Jim

Offline EHM-0471 Peter

  • Cruise Altitude
  • *****
  • Posts: 202
  • Karma: 0
Orient Express discussion Forum
« Reply #82 on: September 25, 2007, 04:02:12 pm »
Hello Jim.

I have the same problem and asked via direct e-mail Phil for some help. Have no explanation of what is happening.

See you on the skies.

Peter

Offline EHM-0654 Murray

  • Administrator
  • Intergalactic!!
  • ***
  • Posts: 4,531
  • Karma: 5
  • VA Management
    • The Ponderings of PMUK
Orient Express discussion Forum
« Reply #83 on: September 25, 2007, 05:32:36 pm »
Error in the database, I've hopefully fixed this now (please check, all affected pilots)
Murray Crane // EHM-0654 // Twitter
VA Management

KEEP CALM AND CARRY ON

Offline EHM-1651 Christian

  • Martian transfer
  • *******
  • Posts: 616
  • Karma: 0
Orient Express discussion Forum
« Reply #84 on: September 25, 2007, 05:35:27 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by EHM-0654 Murray

Your equipment list is missing a "W"


Murray have you ever heard of a JU52  that is certified for flying in RVSM airpace? ;)
EHM-1651 CHRISTIAN BAKKE "A pilots ego equals the wingspan" Stated by a Captain of Widerøe

Offline EHM-1953 Daniel

  • FL100
  • ****
  • Posts: 131
  • Karma: 0
Orient Express discussion Forum
« Reply #85 on: September 25, 2007, 06:01:38 pm »
hmm... :% you're not supposed to be able to lock the next leg until the 27th right? :P i'm able to lock it now, but will unlock it again so i don't mess things up ;D because the legs aren't supposed to be able to lock before you shall fly them right? :P just wanted to let our great working MT know ;)
Daniel Sahlin EHM-1953 ESSA

EHM-1500 Jim

  • Guest
Orient Express discussion Forum
« Reply #86 on: September 25, 2007, 07:16:37 pm »
Murray, can now lock the flight, but........

when i click Pro-pilot in flight logger it comes up with the previous leg??
I have reset and updated flight logger and even unlocked and then locked the flight again on the web page but still flight logger comes up with the previous leg.

Help again please ? :]

Offline EHM-1703 Philip

  • Intergalactic!!
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,312
  • Karma: 0
Orient Express discussion Forum
« Reply #87 on: September 25, 2007, 09:34:11 pm »
Jim and everyone, As you guys probably know, I am green when it comes to the back end stuff so i will leave it to the experts. This error will get sorted and we will stretch the date of the legs for anyone who can not make it due to this error, stay tuned we will update ASAP.

Cheers,

Phil
Phil Nutt EHM 1703
 

Offline EHM-0471 Peter

  • Cruise Altitude
  • *****
  • Posts: 202
  • Karma: 0
Orient Express discussion Forum
« Reply #88 on: September 25, 2007, 11:12:08 pm »
Thanks Phil. We have to take such side effects as a part of the event, and start thinking positively, like: Wow, some more fun....;D

Peter

Offline EHM-1703 Philip

  • Intergalactic!!
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,312
  • Karma: 0
Orient Express discussion Forum
« Reply #89 on: September 25, 2007, 11:17:41 pm »
It is strange cos I have just completed it without a problem!!!! Must be something to do with the tail numbers or something!
Phil Nutt EHM 1703
 

Offline EHM-0654 Murray

  • Administrator
  • Intergalactic!!
  • ***
  • Posts: 4,531
  • Karma: 5
  • VA Management
    • The Ponderings of PMUK
Orient Express discussion Forum
« Reply #90 on: September 26, 2007, 09:26:39 am »
Politely put, balls up in the database (no names, no pack drill...)

*DO NOT* lock E045, it's dates are completely wrong at present.

UPDATE: Wee... thank goodness for command history. OK, all dates corrected; E044 should be lockable right now, E045 goes live tomorrow (and all subsequent legs are "bumped" correctly). I'm at work so cannot investigate FLogger issues, but remember to update the timetable or you'll not get the corrected start/end dates.

FURTHER UPDATE: And FYI all of you currently at LFPO, we're extending the closing date for E044 by two days to 2007-09-29 because of all the troubles. Again, remember to update your FLogger timetable to get the new dates...
Murray Crane // EHM-0654 // Twitter
VA Management

KEEP CALM AND CARRY ON

Offline EHM-0654 Murray

  • Administrator
  • Intergalactic!!
  • ***
  • Posts: 4,531
  • Karma: 5
  • VA Management
    • The Ponderings of PMUK
Orient Express discussion Forum
« Reply #91 on: September 26, 2007, 09:36:36 am »
Quote
Originally posted by EHM-1651 Christian
Murray have you ever heard of a JU52  that is certified for flying in RVSM airpace? ;)


Well... a number of IVAO division's position is that since IvAp has a TCAS, all aircraft are RVSM certified (was a CA staffer told me that).

BUT, real-world, no, not unless you got all the additional equipment fitted to get it certified
Murray Crane // EHM-0654 // Twitter
VA Management

KEEP CALM AND CARRY ON

EHM-1500 Jim

  • Guest
Orient Express discussion Forum
« Reply #92 on: September 26, 2007, 09:09:24 pm »
This is weird... i have LFPO - LPST locked in pro-pilot but when i run flight logger now it says i have no flight locked - what is happening??
Could some one unlock my flight for me so i can re-lock it....
Tail ID = D-EHOX

Cheers.

Offline EHM-0654 Murray

  • Administrator
  • Intergalactic!!
  • ***
  • Posts: 4,531
  • Karma: 5
  • VA Management
    • The Ponderings of PMUK
Orient Express discussion Forum
« Reply #93 on: September 26, 2007, 10:05:21 pm »
Jim, that flight (E045) isn't live/lockable until tomorrow officially speaking... It was only due to the error earlier that you had the opportunity to lock this flight at all (did you not read my "do not lock this flight" above...? ;D).

To be honest, as long as the "timeout" is late tomorrow/day after, don't worry about it and fly when it's live...

[strike](Truth is, we're suffering a few back-end niggles at the moment and I don't want to have to figure out how to manually unlock a locked flight)[/strike] ;)
Murray Crane // EHM-0654 // Twitter
VA Management

KEEP CALM AND CARRY ON

EHM-1500 Jim

  • Guest
Orient Express discussion Forum
« Reply #94 on: September 28, 2007, 02:05:52 pm »
Murray, the flight i am talking about is E044  .....   lol

Offline EHM-0948 Bruno

  • Intergalactic!!
  • ********
  • Posts: 3,561
  • Karma: 0
Orient Express discussion Forum
« Reply #95 on: September 28, 2007, 09:28:01 pm »
Hi,

The E044 already passed the deadline mate ... 17 pilots made it.

Did you made the flight Jim?

Offline EHM-1703 Philip

  • Intergalactic!!
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,312
  • Karma: 0
Orient Express discussion Forum
« Reply #96 on: September 28, 2007, 10:47:09 pm »
I don't think he did Bruno, I think a few people missed out due to these problems. Can we extend the leg?
Phil Nutt EHM 1703
 

Offline EHM-0948 Bruno

  • Intergalactic!!
  • ********
  • Posts: 3,561
  • Karma: 0
Orient Express discussion Forum
« Reply #97 on: September 29, 2007, 01:24:25 am »
Sure, it makes sense since it was a technical problem.

The leg E044 was extended until 30-09-2007.

If you have any problems, please send me an email. I normally filter the problems via email before coming here.

Regards,

Offline EHM-0654 Murray

  • Administrator
  • Intergalactic!!
  • ***
  • Posts: 4,531
  • Karma: 5
  • VA Management
    • The Ponderings of PMUK
Orient Express discussion Forum
« Reply #98 on: September 29, 2007, 09:53:47 am »
Jim,

Ah, seems I mis-read your message (for which apologies). I had already extended that leg to today in fact

Quote
FURTHER UPDATE: And FYI all of you currently at LFPO, we're extending the closing date for E044 by two days to 2007-09-29 because of all the troubles. Again, remember to update your FLogger timetable to get the new dates...


So you should still be good to go on. If you still need it forcibly unlocked *shout now* or forever hold your peace...
Murray Crane // EHM-0654 // Twitter
VA Management

KEEP CALM AND CARRY ON

EHM-1500 Jim

  • Guest
Orient Express discussion Forum
« Reply #99 on: October 01, 2007, 10:03:36 am »
Made the leg - many thanks for all the help.

Jim