PC Randomly Shuts Down

[EHM-1617 Iain]

I have been having problems with my PC recently which mean that I am unable to do an EHM flight.

All is fine running low processor usage apps such as IE and MSOffice etc.. but whenever I try anything where processor usage is near 100% e.g FS9 then my PC will hold out for an hour max before the display briefly shows no signal and then the machine just powers off (no shutdown screen).

The connection with processor usage makes me feel that overheating may be the issue. However it is not until recently (PC is 1 yr old) that this has started happening.

I have noticed however that all the components inside have built up a healthy coating of dust. Could this be a problem and what can I do about it?

Looking forward to flying again... any suggestions comments (especially helpful ones ) or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

[EHM-1281 Cyriel]

Some systemboards have a build in temperature sensor and software available to read it out (e.g. most ASUS systemboards have this). If yours have you can get an indication of temperature. Dust can be an problem but i have had PC wich had actually grown their own micro biosphere and they still functioned. Open it up and mame sure all the components are still connected well especially the heat sink on the processor. If it is loose you will need to put on another coating of heat conducting paste as well.

Did you try running FS at a lower detail level or resolution? That should also help to contol heat and help to determine if this is really the problem.

[EHM-1617 Iain]

No I didn't try the FS settings ... I will give it a go. I'm gonna clean out and check it out inside when I get the chance.

I don't have an ASUS board, so I don't know the live CPU temp. I installed the CPU + Heatsink + CPU fan myself so maybe I was too sparing with the paste or just didn't put it on quite securely... Thanks

[EHM-1703 Philip]

Hi Iain,

Dust is always a problem and should be cleaned out on a regular basis. Please don't take a Vacuum Cleaner to your pc's guts though, it can build up static and fry your components. Use a soft paint brush to clean fans etc. You should do this at least once every two months. Be carefull if you are new to this as you have to remember its gonna be expensive if you go at it like a bull in a china shop.

Is your Processor AMD or Intel? Some of the older Intel Chips had crap thermal compound on them. Also AMD's can be troublesome when not getting enough air! You may want to ensure your CPU fan is being efficient as some times the compound that sits between the CPU and the fans heatsink can break down. Get a new tube of Heat Sink compound from your local PC supplier and replace it yourself if you have the knowledge. (Remember to be carefull when removing the old compound)
Otherwise take it to visit your local PC World. They will give your PC a thorough service for quit a reasonable cost. (If anything at PC world can be called reasonable) Make sure you explain your issues and concerns to them to make sure they cure your problem.

Don't automatically think that this problem is directly linked to your Processor, many of your PC's components heat up with more use. I have to be honest, your description above sounds like it could be a Motherboard problem or GPU related. What Graphics Processor do you use? Does your Motherboard have temprature settings in the BIOS? If it does, it can Monitor your CPU's core temp and warn you when it is getting hot? Are you overclocking anything, especially your Graphics Processor? (GPU) This is a common cause of the shutdown you describe, usually if your processor is getting to hot it starts performing poorly before finally going in to thermal shutdown. GPU's only have these sort of features on top of the range models.

I would start by doing the following:

1. Carefully dust out your case and fans

2. Power up with the side panel missing, run up FS9 and make sure your fans are all operating. (If your motherboard has a North Bridge and/or South Bridge fan, these are the first ones to check as they are smaller and less efficient. Also check your Graphics Card, Radeon X800 cards had a lot of fan problems, but only later GPU's have fans fitted.

3. Defrag your Hard Drive and run Scan Disk.

4. Shutdown your PC. Wait a while and reseat your RAM. (Carefully remove it from the slot and replace it, it will clean any corrosion from the contacts)

5. If nothing else works, attempt a short prayer followed by large amounts of begging to enable you to get a new PC which will run Windows Vista and be ready for FSX when it arrives!

Hehehe, Sorry about the last one, Hope you get your problems sorted. I also have a very tempramental system but that is because I over clock it and run raid drives.

Good luck!

EDIT* (Sorry, I was so long composing the above that Cyriel gave you the short answer before I could add this hehehehe!)

[EHM-1617 Iain]

Thnx for the essay Phil AMD 2800+ processor. ATI 9800SE (special edition a.k.a. Sh*t edition) GPU. My PC has a see thru plastic panel so I can see all the stuff inside anyway (with a fashlight). I am not overclocking any components. My GPU has no separate fans. I can't see North or South brdge fans on the mobo. The CPU fan is (unscientifically) spinning very fast. Don't have a clue about teh BIOS... I'll play around with it. Thanks anyway

[EHM-1703 Philip]

Iain, Get yourself a small tube of Silver based Thermal compound. (The best you can afford!) Get some cotton buds and a small bottle of IPA (Isopropyl Alcohol) from a chemist. Very Carefully remove all of the old Heat Sink Compound and replace it with high quality new compound. Don't over paste it either! If you are having overheating problems and you fitted it yourself, this will probably cure it. I will be surprised if it is this though. Every AMD processor I have had that overheated caused very strange problems to occur before shutting down altogether. (BTW, I have managed to overheat every CPU I have ever had, just by trying to find it's OC limits )

[EHM-1617 Iain]

What do I do with the IPA?

[EHM-1703 Philip]

Well I would advise you don't try drinking it firstly, it can cause instant sight loss!

Wipe off as much compund that you can with a dry lint free cloth. (Don't use tissues or kitchen towel as they leave residue) Dip a cotton bud in the IPA, press it to the neck of the bottle to effectively wring it out, then gently remove the excess paste from the top of your CPU with the cotton bud. Make sure when you press on the cpu, that the fluid does not run out of the cotton bud, it should just be damp. Leave it for about an hour after cleaning (Otherwise you will flambe your cpu when you power up again) and reapply the new compound and fit the fan. IPA is very strong alcohol based cleaner and evaporates quickly without residue, but it is conductive so don't use too much it or get it on your cpu contacts.

[EHM-1617 Iain]

OK, cheers. Will report on progress.

[EHM-1752 Luciano]

Hi Iain,

I had the same problem of sudden shut down about 2 months ago.

I eventually changed the power supply with a brand new. It was ok for a while, but after 10 days or so the problem occurred again. My repair shop decided to change the power supply again (under guarantee) and my PC seems to work all right now.

Hope it helps.

Bye.

Luciano

[EHM-1670 Bill]

I'm with Luciano on this. I don't know rating your supply has but with FS9 and any other processor intensive therefore power hungry programs I would recommend nothing less that a 500W supply.

And be careful with the paintbrush - they can store static electricity very easily especially if the hairs are animal.

[EHM-1703 Philip]

Of course, I never even considered the PSU, although I don't understand why it would break down gradually, but then again, I slept through the power supplies module at college!

On the paint brush issue, why not try your local PC supplier.... PC World (anybody would think I worked for them!) has a range of "ELECOM" brushes, especially for this purpose. They are a bit pricey, so you may try looking elsewhere. (Between 7 and 10 pounds!)

[EHM-1670 Bill]

I only considered the PSU as I have gone through that scenario twice in the last few years in my business and had to physically restrain our contracted computer technician from replacing the motherboard and anything else he could think of to make a quick buck. After the second time I dispensed with his services.

Thanks for the tip on where to source the brushes.

PC World (anybody would think I worked for them!)

You would be like a fish out of water there - you know something about computers. I am convinced my local store is staffed by motorcycle pizza delivery drivers who have lost their driving licences.

[EHM-1816 Phil]

Why not try say B&Q or Homebase and get a small paint brush?

[EHM-1703 Philip]

Phil,

As Bill says, you have to be carefull not to get one that will generate static.

Cheers,

[EHM-1617 Iain]

Guys... I think I may have the problem





Especially the first two shots. You can see that around 50% of the the area that the CPU fan is supposed to be blowing air through is totally blocked with dust. Gonna clean it out and see what happens (fingers crossed). What do you guys think?

OK OK I've never cleaned it out before, didn't know how, I am ashamed.

@Phil... I have eliminated the GPU overheating... I set FS Settings to the very max and it still died in about the same amount of time (even though I was down to 17FPS on the ground with full AI Traffic at KSEA which I was quite proud of ).

[EHM-1358 Tim]

WOW! Get a hoover in there quick!

[EHM-1670 Bill]

Do you hoover the carpet with the computer turned on? If so desist at once. All the dust the hoover stirs up gets sucked into the computer by the fans.

[EHM-1703 Philip]

I'm safe, all the dust round here settles on the wife!

[EHM-1617 Iain]

Thanks for the tip Bill! Will clean it out.

[EHM-1617 Iain]

OK I have aquired a non static brush and am looking for some tips on actually getting the thing cleaned out? Do I remove heatsinks etc? Compressed air? Or just the brush?? etc. thanks

[EHM-1703 Philip]

Hi Iain,

If you have some new Heat Sink Compound, I would certainly take that fan of your CPU and give it a d**n good clean.

Compressed air is great, but remember, it just moves the dust somewhere else so you have to make sure you remove all the dust. (also make sure you keep the can upright, cos the propellant will come out in liquid form if you don't) The last time I cleaned my pc out (2 weeks ago) I removed all the components from the case, gave it a d**n good clean out, then replaced them one by one cleaning each peice before I replaced it. I did use compressed air, but well away from the case and just on the more fiddly components. (All the fans including the PSU and case fans)

As Bill said earlier in the thread, I may be barking up the wrong tree and you should consider your PSU, especially if it is a cheaper model or low rated. (3 to 400 watts) I have had to upgrade to a 480 watt model as I had 4 HDD and a PCI x16 GPU sucking my old one dry!

[EHM-1539 Pierre]

Hohooo, had my PSU screwed 2 years ago... Random crashes, mostly RAM failure symptoms, sometimes swapfile or graphic card symptoms... This is evil because it gives you an "IRQL not less or equal" blue screen or equivalent but you can't figure out.
Pulled my hair of my head during several weeks, formatted, tested all my components before I brought a PSU from work, and it worked. Bought a new 430W one and no prob anymore (be careful for quite some time new models of graphic cards need much power). For me it was the GFX (AGP4x only!) and 4 IDE hard drives.

The nightmare is that I had my old PC to test the GFX and PSU, but that "dead" PSU was working fine on the old PC !
I recommend borrowing a PSU and trying it.

[EHM-1617 Iain]

Fixed it... a quick trip to PC world. Bought an anti-ESD wrist strap, anti-ESD brush, compressed air bottle, some heat sink compund, TFT screen cleaning stuff. Have to say it worked a treat.

I ripped off the side panel (not literally) and brushed off all the components, sprayed the air everywhere I couldn't get at. (All the while making sure I wore my wrist strap). I then vacuumed the dust off the bottom of the case (not the comopnents).

I managed to clear all the fans. I also cleaned out all the peripherals.

I plugged it all back together and it worked, which was good. It was noticebly faster. I ran FS for 3 hours straight to test it, was fine.

I didn't manage to get the heatsink fully off though - which I wanted to do to clean it properly. But I have since watched the AMD video again, so I know how to do it next time. The thermal compound will be of use!

Thanks guys - you fixed my PC (well you told me how to do it)! Now I only have to find the motivation to do it every couple of months.

BTW the TFT screen cleaning solution is great! The blotches on the screen have been removed. It uses a microfiber applicator. It was called clearview compact and works well. The screen is very nice and only needed a little wipe with a specs cleaning cloth (silky microfiber) to remover some of the residue and it was perfect. Thanks again for your help!!! All fixed

[EHM-1703 Philip]

NP m8, is that why you missed the fly in today? Check out the screenshots page. Tim and I were playing Tag! He won