Work Done!

[EHM-1199 Philip]

Having spoken with Gergely I am acting on behalf of EHM in a small project with Gary Summons (author/designer of the fantastic UK2000 scenery product range http://www.s114327879.websitehome.co.uk/gatwickpro/). Gary will add our VA logo to some of the gates in his Gatwick Pro scenery. I have asked whether he would offer the same service for Heathrow Pro. We need to do two things:

1: Chose which terminal to operate from and have our logos places in the correct location. ( Gary's information on this included "The north terminal is newest with the airbridge leading to Pier6, Pier6 is used for B737,A320,B757 type aircraft anything larger will use the main North terminal.
 
The south terminal has 3 piers, the mid pier for most aircraft, Pier3 (rotary pier) for 747-A340 and Pier 1 for small 737 and smaller.").

2: Decide whether or not we can operate some of our flights into Gatwick or not. For the sake of realism, many of the smaller regional services operating the internal flights we have in our UK schedule as class 1 flights do in fact use Gatwick as opposed to Heathrow and it would be more realistic for us to also do so IMHO. So, could some of our internal flights use Gatwick as the London arrival and departure, perhaps providing a free shuttle service between Gatwick and Heathrow for passengers wanting to connect to a long haul destination.

Basically if we don;t put a few flights in and out of Gatwick there's not a lot of point in the VA logo being a part of Gatwick Pro. Anyway, look forward to reading comments on this and seeing what folks opinions are.

[EHM-1671 Ben]

Wow, sounds exciting.

It looks like the south pier would be better for EuroHarmony, since it is able to accomodate for a wider range of aircraft, and since London is an important HUB, domestic and international destination then we'll need a terminal which can service a large range of aircraft.

That's my two cents!

[EHM-1199 Philip]

Certainly makes sense but it depends on what flights we want to take into Gatwick. I know Air SouthWest fly in to the North terminal. Many shorter regional flights do go to North Terminal as do short european flights if I'm right.

[EHM-0641 Rico]

Hi Phil

Maybe the the answer as to your question on wich gates/terminals lies in *THIS* post

[EHM-1703 Philip]

Well, although its a few years off, Terminal 2 is closing down so we will have to find a new home for short haul at EGLL sooner or later. I suggest we take over Terminal 4 when BA move to Terminal 5!

[EHM-1199 Philip]

Thanks for the responses. This particular offer of including us in scenery is for Gatwick Pro and I have yet to confirm whether or not we can have a place in Gary's Heathrow Pro scenery. So, focussing again - there are two parts here ... where in Gatwick and whether or not we could direct a small number of internal UK flights there.

[EHM-1671 Ben]

Um, for what it's worth, I think that if we can get a terminal at Heathrow then maybe we shouldn't get one at Gatwick? That way we don't have to redirect flights...

[EHM-1001 Robert]

I like the idea ! Although I do not know the layout of Gatwick, I think gates that can accomodate up to class5 aircrafts are enough. If we will ever place low-class flights out from Heathrow to Gatwick, I am sure Class 6 and 7 will remain there. So...small gates are enough, I think

[EHM-1671 Ben]

Good idea Robert, lower class flights can fly into Gatwick and the longer international flights into Heathrow (I think that's what you meant)

[EHM-1703 Philip]

I am currently working on new schedules for all hubs at the moment. The Gatwick subject has been mentioned previously and although I hope to add a few flights to Gatwick, our focus must remain on improving our existing Hub networks. With that in mind, I *expect* that we will have a flight from each Hub to EGKK but that is as far as I can see it going at the moment.

This is what I have in mind. (Make your comments here if you disagree) Class 1 flight from EGLL (For the chopper pilots!:) )
Class 4/5 flights from EHAM, ESSA & LSZH.
Class 6 Flights from LPPT & LGAV.
Class 7 Flight from KATL

Also, these will probably be added to either the Business or Holidays Divisions.

Nothing above is set in stone and I can not give you a time frame at the moment as there are more pressing projects on the go.

As always, comments are welcomed as this seems to be a hot topic!

[EHM-1199 Philip]

Hi, I did reply to Phil via e-mail but would just like to share my opinon here for public comment. Quoted from my e-mail to save retyping:

"When Gary finishes adding our VA to the Gatwick Pro product then we would need a few flights to provide any incentive for folks to invest in the product and see his work. My first thought was that the likes of Air Wales, Air Southwest etc tend to use Gatwick or Stansted over Heathrow. A few regional flights redirected into EGKK therefore would provide Gary with a return on his time invested and provide some of our members with a purpose to investing in Gatwick Pro which really is a stunning piece of scenery. I would feel slightly fraudulent having asked Gary to do this work if we then had no flights at all in or out of EGKK and consequently he had no prospect of a return on his work."

The idea to take flights to and from existing hubs is interesting ... however, "Far more realistic for folks in the UK would be to fly from Manchester, Leeds Bradford, Birmingham, Cardiff, Plymouth into Gatwick as those are more realistic routes for small turboprops than EGLL. There could then be a link to EGLL if necessary or as I suggested on the forum, leave our virtual passengers to take the excellent Gatwick – Heathrow shuttle service."

There is a need however to recognise that the EHM timetable is a mammoth beast and tinkering is done only when necessary. I think however in return for being included in such a prestigious and professional commercial product we should consider a few EGKK flights in return. EHM pilots would benefit in terms of a fresh London destination that for regional turboprop flights was a more realistic destination than EGLL - and potentially Gary Summons might benefit as our members would have a reason to invest in the scenery.

[EHM-0948 Bruno]

Hi Phil,

We are still taking a final decision on this matter...
Can you give us some days please ? Thanks

[EHM-0641 Rico]

Originally posted by Plymyphil
a more realistic destination than EGLL -

Why would EGLL not be a realistic destination ..??

[EHM-1671 Ben]

Why would EGLL not be a realistic destination ..??

Becuase EGLL is crowded enough with international traffic as it is, many more domestic turboprops wouldn't help the situation...

[EHM-0654 Murray]

Originally posted by EHM-0641
Why would EGLL not be a realistic destination ..??

Specifically, Heathrow is the primary International/long haul airport for the UK.

Domestic traffic from the London area uses City/Gatwick/Luton, and short-haul international uses Gatwick/Luton/Stanstead.

PhilR is correct in his "more realistic" assertion, but in the virtual world it's far less important that a domestic flight avoids EGLL.

[EHM-0361 Karsten]

I can agree with Phil, it would perhaps be more  realistic if we moved class 1-3 traffic to Gatwick, or at least the traffic the domestic traffic. There are 14 flights in the EHM going out of EGLL to different parts of the United Kingdom. I would guess there are 14 going back as well. So if we did that it would be 28 class 1-3 flights we moved from EGLL to EGKK. That's shouldn't be that big of a deal.
However I can understand if the MT isn't to keen on the idea. Because that would mean they had to make 28 new flights. Because you can't just move those 28 flight. So 28 new flights with 28 new flight numbers, plus we still need to keep the old flights in the database, otherwise some pilot will start to have blank records in their flight record. So I can understand both sides of this. However I'm sure in the end that the MT is going to make the right decision, whatever that might be.

[EHM-1199 Philip]

Karsten, thanks for this. I hear what Bruno said and understand the management are working hard as ever and this is a 'fringe' issue compared to some of the bigger developments. However, what you say Karsten makes perfect sense. Put alongside say a chopper flight linking EGLL and EGKK we could have a realistic use of EGKK and also provide pilots with a reason to purchase and enjoy Gary's superb scenery.

[EHM-0654 Murray]

I'll just quote a small part of a post I made in the management forum:

Originally posted by Murray Crane
Flights to/from Gatwick? I say "tinkers rucksack!" What does it matter if we have flights to/from there or not. Having our logo on a few gates will get us additional exposure, whether we have flights or not (a flight or two would be nice).

I don't expect anyone outside the UK to care about Gary's scenery, and I really don't think any non-EHM pilots would want to add our "gates" to their GatPro. I didn't buy the UK2000 bits I own because of EuroHarmony, I bought them because I like to fly VFR in the UK. As an owner of much of the UK2000 scenery (Heathrow Pro and most of the UK part sets) I'll probably buy GatPro too. It'd be nice to see the EHM name whenever I'm thereabouts.

Baring my hardware investments (I have another $1,500+US purchase lined up...) the next single greatest expenditure I have made is on UK terrain, scenery and textures. I'm a UK "pilot", I enjoy spending time in UK airspace, and I want it to look as "real" as I can afford to make it. I'm never going to spend anywhere near as much on non-UK.

I see this issue currently having no impact on non-UK/non-EHM pilots. If, longer term, we do start more realistic UK operations (EGLL for Transcontinental, EGKK or one of the other London airports for Domestic and "local" International), great! However, I doubt it will have any effect on GatPro.

As such, this is nothing more than a brand awareness exercise. I'd like to see EHM taking Gary up on his kind offer on maybe one or two gates (one "large", one "small"). Perhaps a few EHM UK pilots will enjoy seeing the logo whenever they are there, same as I know I will.

[EHM-0641 Rico]

Originally posted by Murray Crane
I'll just quote a small part of a post I made in the management forum:

Originally posted by Murray Crane
Flights to/from Gatwick? I say "tinkers rucksack!" What does it matter if we have flights to/from there or not. Having our logo on a few gates will get us additional exposure, whether we have flights or not (a flight or two would be nice).

I don't expect anyone outside the UK to care about Gary's scenery, and I really don't think any non-EHM pilots would want to add our "gates" to their GatPro. I didn't buy the UK2000 bits I own because of EuroHarmony, I bought them because I like to fly VFR in the UK. As an owner of much of the UK2000 scenery (Heathrow Pro and most of the UK part sets) I'll probably buy GatPro too. It'd be nice to see the EHM name whenever I'm thereabouts.

Baring my hardware investments (I have another $1,500+US purchased lined up...) the next single greatest expenditure I have made is on UK terrain, scenery and textures. I'm a UK "pilot", I enjoy spending time in UK airspace, and I want it to look as "real" as I can afford to make it. I'm never going to spend anywhere near as much on non-UK.

I see this issue currently having no impact on non-UK EHM pilots. If, longer term, we do start more realistic UK operations (EGLL for Transcontinental, EGKK or one of the other London airports for Domestic and "local" International), great. Then, maybe, the general user population would perhaps have a desire to purchase a payware scenery pack such as this, but I doubt it. I don't think Gary is going to see a surge in purchases if we begin operating from EGKK.

As such, this is nothing more than a brand awareness exercise. I'd like to see EHM taking Gary up on his kind offer on maybe one or two gates. Perhaps a few EHM UK pilots will enjoy seeing the logo whenever they are there, same as I know I will.

Murray.. 100% agreed.. wheather we fly there or not, our name being there will give us more exposure to non EHM pilots, and maybe they will be interested to visit our site, and ultimately join our VA...

[EHM-1199 Philip]

I hear what you are saying Murray - the EHM logo on there even if it was a non-EHM flight would still be great. The reality is though that these gates are downloaded as a bolt on and consequently the only folk seeing the gates are the EHM pilots. This is about us getting a little more pleasure from our flight simming and VA.
Listening to other comments on the forum too many folk fly largely VA flights ... there are other threads running where people have tried to get flights listed in our timetable so they can claim VA hours and some folk, who shall remain nameless unless they want to wave another flag in this thread, who have been filing personal flights under EHM9999 to get the hours! Hence, it is important to folk that their flight sim time is accredited at EHM and a small handful of flights in and out of Gatwick would be easy enough to do and give folks more pleasure from the Gatwick Pro scenery if they choose to purchase than if they could only fly non-EHM flights to enjoy it.

Either way, the way this started was a request for a decision on which terminal and piers. If we could sign up to a consensus on that I'll get back to Gary and then whether or not folk's buy the scenery is up to them and whether or not any flights actually go there for us is up to management.

[EHM-0654 Murray]

Originally posted by Murray Crane
...maybe one or two gates (one "large", one "small").

Seems "fair" given we currently have no Gatwick operation. Or perhaps, given the route suggestions, a pair of "small" (B738 and smaller) gates.

[EHM-0641 Rico]

Originally posted by Plymyphil
I hear what you are saying Murray - the EHM logo on there even if it was a non-EHM flight would still be great. The reality is though that these gates are downloaded as a bolt on and consequently the only folk seeing the gates are the EHM pilots. This is about us getting a little more pleasure from our flight simming and VA.
Listening to other comments on the forum too many folk fly largely VA flights ... there are other threads running where people have tried to get flights listed in our timetable so they can claim VA hours and some folk, who shall remain nameless unless they want to wave another flag in this thread, who have been filing personal flights under EHM9999 to get the hours! Hence, it is important to folk that their flight sim time is accredited at EHM and a small handful of flights in and out of Gatwick would be easy enough to do and give folks more pleasure from the Gatwick Pro scenery if they choose to purchase than if they could only fly non-EHM flights to enjoy it.

Either way, the way this started was a request for a decision on which terminal and piers. If we could sign up to a consensus on that I'll get back to Gary and then whether or not folk's buy the scenery is up to them and whether or not any flights actually go there for us is up to management.

Well Phil, I'd have to agree with you too

hehehe, but as you said the ultimate decision lies with MT

[EHM-1199 Philip]

If you own Gatwick Pro and would like to see some of the default gates painted in EHM livery then please bustle on over to:

http://www.s114327879.websitehome.co.uk/gatwickpro/downloads.htm

You will be able to (for free) download the modification file that will prepare the EHM gates for your use. (Note, this is a modification of Gary's Gatwick Pro and you will need to purchase this package before using the EHM download. The EHM download does not modify the default Gatwick scenery and you may have problems if you try to use it in this way.)

For those that don't own Gatwick Pro (yet) you may like to look at the homepage of the above link and consider supporting this product. Gary has a range of UK airports covered in incredible detail and the retail packages you see in stores such as PC World sold as 'British Airports' are actually rebadged/repackaged versions of Gary's UK2000 scenery work. Buying direct from Gary Summons saves you money and also more closely supports Gary's development work. Anyway, take a look and see what you think.