MD11 Super panel but i cant land it aggh1

[EHM-1838 Andrew]

Hello all
I have recently become obsessed with this plane or rather the panel that goes with it.I am talking about the Alain capt ACS md11 panel which is a highly detailed and very pleasing to use(packed with features and immersive stuff)panel.It took a lot of time and a downloaded(39 page manual)and fiddling about to get it sorted but although i have got to grips with its many functions and can taxi takeoff climb and cruise with no problem when it comes to landing i simply can not manage an autopilot landing.Unlike other models which are more forgiving i always loose control at about five miles out with plane pogoing up and down before hitting the deck.I have tried different approach speeds,checked my cargo and fuel weights but with no joy.Has anyone out there got any tips?
cheers Andy
PS please none of the "land it manually be a real pilot" sort of thing.I had to do that anyway.If the plane can be landed with the ILS approach and autopilot then i want to be able to do it.Has anybody got any tips?I want to stick with it because it is such a good Panel. Mr   Alain deserves praise for his hard work.
cheers Andy

[EHM-1671 Ben]

I'm not sure I specifically understand the problem here, does the aircraft spontaneously move up and down instantly (as if it were in slew mode) or slow, by pulling up and then lowering the nose again? And I didn't know that the plane could land itself by the autopilot intercepting ILS!!

P.S. I'm not going to criticize you for landing the plane by autopilot, I used to disengage the autopilot only about 5 miles out when I was configured and decending nicely .

[EHM-1838 Andrew]

Hello there
I will try to explain.When iam coming in to land at about ten miles out everything is fine ie right approach speed flaps etc following the glidescope with no problems but at roughly five out the plane seems to dive down rather than hold the course(actually Alain does say that if you dont pick up the glidescope early enough(with app hold) this is exactly what will happen because its something to with Inertia of such large aircraft )Its probably something iam doing and i will probably set up a flight  thirty miles out from landing,save it and just practice.
Cheers Andy

[EHM-1001 Robert]

Well, if I am right the MD11 autoland system is a bit different from any other. When youengage autoland, it will try to lock the glideslope and that takes a bit of time. During this initialization you must fly very close to the glideslope. After about 20-30 seconds it will turn ON and will follow the glideslope...I do not remember the correct details, like buttons, etc...but I tried it in absolute fog and it worked superb, after a short boot period.

[EHM-1838 Andrew]

Thanks Sir Bob
It does turn on sometimes but iam obviously not maintaining the correct speeds flaps etc because an audible warning will sound till its corrected or you choose to abort and go for a manual landing,but i never seem to be able to correct by which time iam into serious pogo and heading for mud.
Thanks for your help i will continue you try.
cheers Andy

[EHM-1671 Ben]

Wow, I didn't know that autopilot could land a plane! How is this done?

[EHM-0744 Alex]

This is kind of off topic, however whenever I try to install Panels they rarely work. I follow the instructions word by word and I only get about 10% of the panels to work. The most common problem I get is that I get the "picture" of the panel however there are no knobs or instruments. Im guessing its a problem with the gauge installation but I do what it says. Does using winzip screw up the process?

Cheers and thanks,

Alex;)

[EHM-1001 Robert]

Hi Alex,

it is probable IF you do not see the gauges, they probably went to a wrong folder.

Back to the MD11, it is true, the autoland sucks :s I tried to edit the autopliot inside the CFG, but did not touch the correct number because the result was not better...so it must have inside the AIR file. The problem is when you hit the glideslope the A/P overdrives the pitch system. (for automation maniacs, I think the Integrator is too strong because the 1st overshoot is too much) I just do not know where to find this factor to alter...

[EHM-1001 Robert]

Ben: it is done by the APP Hold mode of autopilot. If you tuned your NAV1 to the ILS freq of the runway you closing, the A/P will take over all control and it will land the plane. On the real big jets, after touchdown, it can automatically deploy the braking systems too, until a complete stop on the centerline of the runway...

I could successfully land it now ! I setted up 20% fuel, 100% cargo and made a short circle around Seattle. I came in with Flaps 4/7 at a speed of 140kts. It was fine ! Although it pitched too much at the beginning but now it placed the plane on the tarmac nicely at the end.

Another hint you could try: as the docu says, the autoland system will turn on below 1500' only. So...as the usual glideslope starts at 2100', you should be already at gliding config before engage the autoland system: 140-150kts and -800 fpm setted. By this, I think the system will not make a so hard pitch as from a levelled state, therefore it can follow the glideslope until the touchdown point.

[EHM-1671 Ben]

I just tried to do this at EHAM's runways 27 and 6 (both ILS). I got their frequencies from arrival charts by IVAO (which I got from the FLogger). I then tuned Nav1 to the runway freqeuncy, (and I pressed the switch which put the frequency on the left side, I don't know if that's what you're supposed to do). I then engaged the AP, FD and A/T. I also armed the APP Hold button. But the plane still didn't land, it just made the nose level and slowly descended into the ground, not turning to line up. What's wrong?

[EHM-1001 Robert]

Well, it depends on the plane and the panel. But on most panels if you arm APP Hold, it will take over all the controls and land the airplane. I mean no FD or other A/P modes required. So...which panel did you try it with ?

[EHM-E4S]

AutoPilot never seems to work for me. I've got to read all those manuals again.

[EHM-1612 Paolo]

Ben did you switched on the NAV1 button on the lower part of the radio control?? Sometimes the APP AP is a bit lazy especially when you are quite far from the rwy, but it is fantastic and even if I prefer visual landings I had to getting strong on APP AP because it is indispensable for a good pilot...(imagine a visual approach with fog no visibility...) :8
I don't know if IVAO's rwy freq are the same of FS, you can check it on your GPS on FS.
Paolo Mazzoleni EHM-1612

[EHM-1838 Andrew]

Hello Folks
The autopilot DOES work,BUT it is a misconception amongst some people that it will land the plane FULLY automatically it wont.You still have to control your approach speeds,and you have to control your flap settings as well,you MUST have the ILS frequency of the  runway you are going to land
on set in your NAV1 radio as well.
Its unfortunate(especiallly for me as i hate long manuals  and instructions)but you have got to read up on the ILS procedures there is no choice really its not something you can do with guess work BUT! on the plus side its very satisfying  when you manage it.
cheers Andy
PS i dont mind that my thread has been hijacked i have a warm and kindly heart.

[EHM-1617 Iain]

None of the default aircraft have autoland capability. There are two main problems:

1. The aircraft does not flare.
2. The throttles do not close (retard).

In other words, it just flies straight down the glideslope on to the runway, and then the autothrottles ensure that you maintain the approach airspeed all the way along the runway - which is painful :%:]

However, in many payware aircraft, and in a very limited number of freeware panels, autoland is included (in the latter it is often very crude).

I will explain the procedure in the PMDG 737-800:

1. Aircraft is at about 180 knots, flaps 5, gear up, on LNAV or HDG mode with APP mode armed. ALT mode is active. SPD mode also active. CMD A active. Both NAV1 and NAV2 have the ILS frequency tuned in, course arrow on the ILS course.

2. Aircraft intercepts localiser. HDG/LNAV disengages. Flaps to 15, SPD mode reduced to 160.

3. Aircraft intercepts glideslope. ALT disengages, leaves only APP and SPD. Flaps 30, Gear down. SPD to VREF + corrections. Landing checklist. Single Channel is annunciated in the PFD.

At this point, the aircraft would behave like the stock aircraft - it would just fly straight down on to the runway.

4. CMD B (second autopilot) is turned on to monitor the first. CMD is annunciated, replacing Single Channel, as is the word FLARE (below G/S), indicating the autopilot will flare the aircraft; and RETARD (below MCP SPEED), showing the autothrottle will close the throttles.

5. At about 30 feet, the FLARE and RETARD modes become active. The throttles close, and the aircraft pitches up to around five degrees.

6. On touchdown, the autopilot is disengaged and the nose manually lowered gently to the ground. Reverse thrust is applied manually, but the wheel brakes are automatically applied; also the spoilers (which were armed) are automatically deployed.

7. Runway is vacated (after manual wheel braking, which disengages the autobrakes), and you call for the after landing checklist from the FO.

But most of the time, even if the autopilot is used to follow the ILS, the pilot will land manually because it's good practice.

And yes, IVAO uses the same runway frequencies (ILS) as offline - they are part of the scenery, which is not changed by IVAO.

Can't help you specifically with that MD11 panel - sorry. I have just written too much

[EHM-1838 Andrew]

Latest md11Panel Landing news update..
I set myself up about thirty miles out EGLL and have tried five approaches and made four out of five this time so it does work(Heathrow always seems good for this sort of practice as the approach is always from a long way out giving you time to set up nicely also i turn of all autogen and only five percent or no traffic gives a smooth app because Heathrow is a bit of a frame rate guzzler)this aircraft with this panel is definatly harder to land than the default or usual third party aircraft(in my view) but if it was always THAT  easy we probably would all be real pilots
Thanks folks for all your useful thoughts and ideas.
cheers andy

[EHM-1001 Robert]

Good point Andy, did you feel the aircraft flare before the touchdown ? I found a variable in the AIR file: "Autoland me" and after I changed it from 0 to 1, the MD11 flared nicely, but I do not remember how it was before...

[EHM-1671 Ben]

Ok. I was trying it with the 777 panel which was in the EHM 757, and I also tried it with the 737 panel which is in the EHM Airbus A320. Yes, I did press the little Nav1 button at the bottom of the radio stack. I also made the runway frequency the active frequency on the Nav1 radio. It didn't work. So, now that Robert tells me that a very limited number of freeware aircraft have it, and they're crude at that, I'll probably just stop trying

[EHM-1838 Andrew]

Sir Bob
I cant say i noticed the plane flaring,but that is because i have decided after many practice landings that the best way(actually i think its the way Alain describes in his (big)manual)is to get well established on the ILS approach,then switch to his EFDI mode get the glidescope and vertical needle aligned and then remove autopilot and manually land the aircraft .Actually its a good compromise as you get to use the ILS landing AND finish of with a  manual landing which is good practice for me as i haven't spent enough time practising manuals.
cheers Andy

[EHM-1838 Andrew]

Roger Wilco
As well as putting the runway frequency into NAV1 radio ,for anything to happen you have to click the NAV button on the autopilot as well.Dont give up cause its really very satisfying  when you get the hang of it.What you could try is a web search for ILS landing procedures explained for fs2004 or something similar and you should find the whole procedure explained.I know its there cause i looked myself.Although FS can drive you nuts at times if you stick with it slowly but surly your knowledge increases and you get REAL pleasure from the sim.Its ironic really i never learnt to drive and at my advancing age i probably no more about the basics of flying a 747 than i do about driving a car.
cheers Andy

[EHM-1838 Andrew]

Roger
By the way tha little button you pressed is iam sure the button for receiving the morse code identifying signal from the runway you intend to land on.IE ATC will say someting like EHM200 you are 34 miles EHAM turn left headiing 270 at that point you should have entered the runway frequency into your NAV1 as described,but then if you hit the little switch you described as well when you are in range you should start to hear a morse code signal (usually about 27miles out)you will know then you are on course and in range THEN hit the NAV button on the AUTOPILOT you should after a while see your plane slowlly start to turn onto the runway heading.
There ia more but iam drinking some jolly nice beer and beginning to get hazy .
I may have not described things that clearly but iamm sure other people hear on this site will chip in with there thoughts too.
cheers Andy

[EHM-1671 Ben]

Yeah, I fell asleep at the helm last night and my brother had to finish the job for me.

Apparently he was able to get the plane's autopilot to follow the localizer, but not anything else (like intercepting glideslope. This isn't really a problm though since once I hit the localizer I descend steadily at 500-800FPM. I will, as you say Horatio, take a look for the autoland instructions. There's bound to be something on the internet! Thanks for all your help guys

[EHM-1838 Andrew]

Roger
Its not autoland that you want.You are on the right track with what you are doing so far.If you can getr the plane to track as you said you should then get approx ten to fifeteen miles from rwy and THEN you  select APP button also on your AUTOPILOT this is what should bring you in but its not designed to FULLY autoland you still have to control your approach speeds and flap settings + autothrottle as well.
You may find it usful to download some of Werner Scotts guides which cover many makes and types of aircraft for simulator use which will tell you take off speeds,landing speeds flap settings etc.
BUT ! you are on the right track with what you are doing.
cheers Andy