online - flying

[EHM-1954 Stephen]

Hello,

First post in the forums and I would firstly like to say " hello " to everybody.. :] Its a great looking Virtual Airline and I am glad to be a member of Euroharmony.

The thing I like about VA's is statistics, some people like, some people don't but me for 1 think they are important as they are a good tool for the management to see how the VA is operating.

Whilst looking through these statistics ( please look for yourself), all the top pilots of each hub are OFFLINERS.

Not having a snipe or anything but I would like to hear from offliners why they do NOT fly online, the amount of hours they do would warrant their experience to at least give it a go.

As a former CEO of BAV we ran this poll to see why and we introduced a POSITION REPORT button in our flight logger for pilots to report their position at random, when the software asked for it. The results were quite astounding as it increased online flying as we found most of the offline flights (especially long Haul) were being conducted without the pilot at the wheel ( so to speak ) and the offline hours decreased.

Have the management or software development team thought about such an introduction ?

[EHM-1465 Dominic]

Stephen,

Welcome to EHM, we're a very friendly VA and always welcome new pilots

The issue you raise about online/offline has been discussed before in these forums and there are many opinions on both sides of the debate. I think it's fair to say that one of the main principles behind the success of EHM is that the VA allows individuals to fly in the way that best suits their circumstances, some enjoy online flights, others don't...

For myself, I have tried online flying but prefer to fly offline. My reasons are that I work shifts so can't often fly at the times that the fly-ins take place, plus I have had an issue with my Internet connection going down which could cause problems When I did try there wasn't much ATC online whereas I have a lot of FS9 traffic I have gone to great lengths to download and install and I enjoy the sense of activity and bustle this brings to airports...

I am sure that other pilots will have varied views on your question but I am confident that we all value the fact that EHM allows us to enjoy flightsim in our own way with only a small number of restrictions and rules...

Once again, welcome and happy flying

[EHM-0948 Bruno]

Hi Stephen,

First I would like to welcome you to our Virtual Airline. It's always a pleasure to have pilots like you, that actually present themselves to the EHM community, and on the first post, already gave suggestions to improve our system and our procedures.

Regarding to your "why pilots don't fly online" question, I must inform you that we already made a poll some time ago, and after analysing the results, we noticed that our pilots don't have the necessary skills or are afraid of comitting mistakes.
So, we are currently developing a new Training Academy that will answer to this problems. We expect to have it fully implemented until the end of the year.

Regarding your "POSITION REPORT" feature, I must assure that we already have it on our todo list. The problem is that our flight logger is not inside FS (it's not like a fs module) so pilots who fly on full screen will have difficult to know when they should click it. Actually we are also developing a brand new flight logger that doesn't have a release date yet.

One more time, welcome to our VA. You will find here a great fs community, completely like a big family that is always trying to help you on whatever you need.
I also suggest you try our professional system called Pro Pilot. Any doubts, just email your Hub Manager and he will glady help you introducing this outstanding and completely innovative system to you.

Kindly Regards,

[EHM-1908 Steve]

First of all welcome to Euroharmony
I have flown a few times online but only once when atc has been present.While i think it is a good thing i can understand why people are afraid of making mistakes and making fools of themselves :$
The only way around this is to do your homework beforehand and the more you fly online the less chance of making mistakes.
This then leads to the problem of time constraint.While flying offline you can almost boot up FS9 and away you go but online you need extra time to prepare for your flight.

At the end of the day this is a V.A. that anyone can enjoy and get what ever they need to out of it without feeling they are in competition with anyone else

[EHM-0361 Karsten]

I guess I'm the top pilot or at least the one with most hours at ESSA. So why don't I fly online? I guess it's lack of time. It takes to long to plan an online flight. Lack of skill. I don't do thing in public unless i'm good at them. Also I don't fly to be part of something big, like the online world is. I fly to relax, and if I don't ATC I turn it off. I mean people don't like if you do that when you fly online.
Now as for the "offliners" there are two types. Those that use our flightlogger and those that don't. I mean unless the management makes it mandatory to use the flightlogger. when they have made some kind of system to check if the pilot really is in front of the screen. Then theres still no way to check the "offliners."
I know that it's still on the to-do-list to make the flightlogger a module in the flightsim. But a sugestion that could be used instead of a button us need to click on. Could be tie to the movement of the mouse. I think this would work even if you fly fullscreen.

[EHM-1821 Javier]

Welcome to this great VA, Stephen;D

I just started flying online a 1 or 2 months ago, the only reason i didnt do it before was that i had no idea how it was like:]

[EHM-1954 Stephen]

I would like to thank you all for your kind welcome. It is much appreciated.

I remember the 1st time I went online, and it was quite a nerve wracking thing at the time. The software used to be quite tricky in the olden days..<G> but it is a lot more user friendly now than it was, especially comm switching.

For new users I would suggest starting from an airfield with no ATC, and just get used to the software and then later step up with the ATC at the arrival end, it really is an enjoyable experience.

For the management, if you would like to setup online flying for new pilots in some form of group flight, count me in, whilst I am not the most experienced online, I would like to lend a hand if need be.

[EHM-1001 Robert]

Hi Stephen,

welcome to the VA. Me, for example is another regular offline flyer. The reason for me is quite simple: offline flying is much easier in the communication part, and the sky is always filled with other planes.

I have 4 main problems with flying online...and all connected to ATC:
1. Of course, everybody says, that ATC guys are very kind, and helpful, but I relaized, if I do not have charts, for example, and those are not up to date, I can confuse the ATC and myself very easily.  I do not like these situations, so I only fly online, when I really have good and enough charts.
2. Another problem is the voice quality...usually I do not understand many ATC/pilot stations because voice quality and the language of speakers vary too much.
3. Of course the ATC conversations should be very formal, and made of only a few dozens of learnable sentences, some ATC stations use different sentences, and different rules, and that can confuse you very easy if yo udo not have enough experience.
4. While flying online, the whole system became more unstable, and crash is always expectable. :s

Non of these problems will occur during offline flights.

[EHM-1800 Franz]

Hi Stephan, dear Harmony-pilots!
2 yerars ago, on the FSC e.v. meeting witch is every year in Oberschleißheim near Munich I got in contact with the IVAO-online-flying section. We met again in Teamspeak and although I was warned that it will become a mania, since this time I fly only online. At my first flights I got also wet and trembling hands and I had also crashes, but I found good and experianced controllers - like Dieter Salzl in austrian airspace which helped (not only) me a lot and since this time I never flow offline anymore (only if testing a new scenery or a new aircraft). Watching my friend, which has no internet, flying with his aircraft, beginning at the active runway with engins already running and after starting press AP and GPS and then watching his airplain a few hours while smoking a few cigarrets and having coffee or watching TV in the meantime, I found this really boring.  Online you have real pilots and contollers (like me and you) around you and not only static and computer animated traffic! Online, your FS beginns to live, you are not anymore alone! After preparing your PMDG calling the ground or tower which gives you the initial flightlevel, the squawk, the depature route - what a difference to offline! It´s like you play with a chess-computer or with some persons! And you will see, an approch is more exiting online ! And I never met any contoller which was not helpfull or polite!  
My PC is not the newest or strongest (Intel Pent.4 2 4Ghz) and I didn´t have any problems, even not with mega EDDF.  I suggest try to logg in on an airport like Amsterdam and tell the controller that you want only observe for a while and look around how aircrafts are taxiing, starting and landing, listen to the dialogs between pilots and controllers!  And for your first flight I recomend a small airfild and to fly with sombody, so you can see each other on the screen and so you can start a little VFR Tour and I´m sure, you want miss it in the future!   Don´t be shy!!! TRY  IT  !!!!!
By the way - how do you make your events if you do´n´t fly online ?
Hope to see you in the sky or on an gate !
Yours

Franz:]

[EHM-1947 Miko]

Originally posted by dom1
.
.. one of the main principles behind the success of EHM is that the VA allows individuals to fly in the way that best suits their circumstances, some enjoy online flights, others don't...

 

This liberal attitude towards the Pilots of the EHM VA was and is the reason why I am very happy having found this community a few weeks ago.

Many VAs even dictate the minimum number of posts per week in the VAs forum - nothing for me who hates beeing controlled and treated like a clerk in a 19th Century factory.

I want to have fun - that's why I'm here. That does not mean a life without certain rules that are neccessary for the benefit of the community.

If there are some pilots who deceive themselves for getting more "hours" - what does it affect me?

I have been used Flightsimulator for more then a decade but am flying online not longer than 4 months now.

There are indeed a lot of disadvantages - the preparation time (often longer than the flight itself) - the strong concentration on formal things and the correct communication - the whole screen is filled by different windows - sweat is running - the fear of failure - but in a certain way I love that and I regret having used FS offline for so many years.

I am sure that I will return to a certain amount of offline flying again one day - at least for a revival of the relax function of the FS - but for now I feel the challenge to become an acceptable online pilot.

[EHM-1343 Jonathan]

I feel now is the correct time for me to add my experiences...

Basically, for the first 3 years of my FS career, I flew offline due to the fact that I couldnt connect to the networks...complicated software and so much of it, impossible for a 12/13 year old kid like I was who just 'wanted to fly and have fun'

My logic on this hasn't changed one bit what so ever, and every time I fire up FS, it is to have fun and enjoy myself. The only difference is that now when i fire up FS, i also fire up IVAP, which has revolutionised the way I think about and go about my flying. Its just as simple as pressing one button and I am connected to a network of fantastic and friendly people, all who want to enjoy themselves.

Basically it was Ben Horsfall's fault that I now fly exlusively online. For all those IVAO virgins, give it a try. To be honest it's like Ice tea...you either love it or hate it, and for the majority of people its the former. Since I started IVAO, my flying is much more realistic, and things like PMDG only add to the realism. Radio Comms are great fun, especially with voice, and since I want to become a pilot in the near future, I love practicing them with online controllers. Im surer many younger pilots at EHM have the same dreams as me, so why not practice now, and when it comes to the selection process, you will wipe the floor with the other candidates.

Other things I love about online flying is that you can fly when and where you want, but you allways know that you will see another airline. You can take of in London surrounded by BA jets, and then land in Lisbon with a set of TAP pilots. And there is a fantastic variety of Airlines, for Example EuroHarmony is just a stone in a pond (allbeit a very large one;D)

My main reason for my love of online flying is the people I meet when flying. I hate to say it but when i started and I heard some of you older guys, it all sounded a bit threatning and daunting to say the least, but under that rusty outer layer, all the people I fly with are great fun. And the best thing is, nobody is judged on what they are like as outside of the virtual world, on IVAO, everyone is looked upon as a Virtual Aviation enthusiast, and because of this, I love online fly-ins...

And also i equally love the fact that when i fly online at events, I can fly with my EuroHarmony colleagues, and when you complete the Runway 05 approach at LPMA with your forum buddies watching, the feeling is unbeatable...

Since my first online flight I have never looked back...

I'm going for a lie down now, my arms hurt...
rgds, Razzzzaaaa!

[EHM-0361 Karsten]

Guy's not to offend anybody, but I think we are starting to move a little off-track here. I mean main question wasn't why you fly online, but why do you fly offline

Originally posted by EHM1954
Not having a snipe or anything but I would like to hear from offliners why they do NOT fly online, the amount of hours they do would warrant their experience to at least give it a go.

But I can agree with Razza, either you get hooked or you don't

[EHM-1671 Ben]

I suppose I could be counted as an offliner, as I've only made a few online flights with Javier and Matt...

There were two main reasons as to why I wasn't keen to get things up and running. Firstly, there was the software. Like Razza said, it's not attractive for a 12/13 year old kid to go through all the set ups and installations. While I'm 15, I still wasn't keen to go through all those set ups, and it took a while to get it all working. And it didn't help either that I'm not the most computer literate person around.

Secondly, there was the human aspect with online flying. While I was really excited that I could fly online with other people next to me (I saw Tim and Razza's 'formation flying' screenies!! ), I was worried about the ATC. I don't know if they're patient enough to put up with a 'newbie'. So I'm still scared but eventually I'll get there lol.

By the way, I'm having trouble with the MTL files. I can only select one MTL file for each of the aircraft, which means I can't get any of the EHM ones. Any help? Thanks!

[EHM-1954 Stephen]

Believe guys. the controllers are sometimes a lot more nervous than the pilots, if not always.

I am C1 rated as well so from both sides i can speak form many.

The IVAO software is fantastic and so user friendly.


I have always stuck by one saying " Never knock it until you try it"


Anyone want an elaboration of that please PM :>:>

[EHM-1001 Robert]

Nice, nice ! If I were a newbie I would surely start online flying after the Razmeister's words

Well, I am not against online flying. But I could say, to me, the offline flying is the flat track, while online flying is the longer and bumpy track for heaven

Ben if you have problem with MTL, please open a new thread and lets discuss it separately

[EHM-1883 Matt]

I remember when I started. I didn't actually start off with IVAO. I was told that Vatsim was the only online flying (not by you guys. It was a website really out of date) and then I got messed up with Squawkbox, and it was a right disaster, and I thought that I will never try this again. Then I found IVAO, and it seemed alot simpler, and I joined. I remember my first few flights when I was scared to death. I didn't start with Voice as my mic. broke, but it was even more terrifying when I did start, as I felt bad, having to ask the tower 16 times what their last message was! But, eventually, I got into it, and luckily I got into groups, such as Javier and Ben, and I really enjoy it. I also started Vatsim, and it is just as good, not as good software, but the traffic is amazing at some times. we need Vatsims traffic and IVAO's software put together to make one almighty online flying simulator!

The only time I fly offline, is when there is no traffic and no controller on either vatsim or IVAO, because I don't like to feel lonely, so i'd rather be flying around other traffic that may not be as good, but at least it gives that effect a bit.

[EHM-1821 Javier]

To add to my previous post, i now fly online more often as i am up for it and im not happy with FS ATC :@

To add to my first online experience, i got escort form a German Air Force Pilot, it was a really friendly environment to fly in, not like FS ATC...

And last but not least, flying in groups;D Ben, Matt, those were some fun flights!

[EHM-1612 Paolo]

I agree with Karsten, I don't usually do many flights online only because of lack of time. I really love flying but sometime I just want to take my 777 away from an airport and doing it without problems, because I really enjoy flying and I first bough FS for that. Now the situation is improving really quickly(for english language and flying knowledge)  but I simply love flying offline...Maybe in EHM there are two main types of pilots: those that love offline flights, and those that love online flights. I know that an online flight requires duble time than an offline one, so the equation is balanced.
However, I love fly-in and I think that it is the most enjoyable way to fly in FS.
Welcome in EHM!
Paolo Mazzoleni EHM-1612

[EHM-1009 Kevin]

I do all my flights offline, i want to do them online but dont feel i hav the knowledge to complete it plus dont want to make a complete hash of it..... if it was possible to hav a little training and be told all the add ons that i needed i would defo give it a go and hopefully become as good online as offline:)

[EHM-1703 Philip]

Kevin, Drop a line to Murray and Conrad in the online division, they will be more than happy to give you a start up lesson or two.... Believe me, it's the best way to learn!

Good luck and I hope to see you online soon!

[EHM-1671 Ben]

Hey Kevin!

I'm a newbie to both online networks VATSIM and IVAO. I'm not too great with ATC but slowly I'm learning . Most of the IVAO and VATSIM ATC are pretty patient anyway.

VATSIM: All I'm using is Squawkbox 3 (and, of course, you need an account with VATSIM lol)
IVAO: IvAp, MTL downloader and installer (note that there are some 1,800+ MTLs. It took me three hours to get them all) and an account with IVAO.

Those are the only things I'm using for both networks... there might be more that I don't have, but I find that they work fine for me