What is the difference

[EHM-1199 Philip]

I'm going to be buying a new computer in the next couple of months to enjoy Euroharmony's new launch with better quality sim experience.

So, which CPU:
P4 3Ghz with HT technology ... or ...
AMD XP3000+

And, which graphics card:
128Mb ATi Radeon 9200 ... or ...
128Mb GeForce FX 5200

Once was a time when I was teccy enough to know but work and life has got in the way and I'm feeling slightly left behind so all advice greatly appreciated.

Also, these CPU and Graphics cards are taken from off the shelf units at PC World. I know ... not the best place to go. If I went to a build what you say guy who has his own shop, what sort of spec. machine would I buy for 900UKP and what features are you folks recommending for a good flight sim experience?

Thanks again for any advice received.

Phil

[EHM-1328 Willem]

I used 2 years a AMD, the last XP2000+ with Geoforce. bad performing on heavy applications.

So AMD+Geforce Its a bad combination.

Better is Intel P4 with  ATi 9600XT or SE(cheaper), or Geforce 9600

The Geforce5200 and  ATi9200 are also bad choices.

I use  intel P4-2,6-FSB 800mh, memory 1GB, 2 HDD 120GB. and ATI9600,

The best card is ATI 9800-256 but its expensive.

Willem.

[EHM-0240 Joe]

Well I've got an AMD XP2800+ with 128mb GeForce4, and I've never had any problems with it. But then I don't exactly use it for anything very demanding. The most demanding thing I probably ever do is fly online in FS2002. So if thats all you will use it for, then AMD plus Geforce is probably ok. If you are going to use it for anything else more demanding then I can't really say.

[EHM-1328 Willem]

I will believe that , if i run FS2002 on my old systeem its ok with the framerates.
But if I run FS9 the video card must be capable of dirextX 9. , the cards geforce 5200 and 5400 and ati 9200 and 9400 cant handle directX 9 they have a littlebit  better performance than your Geforce MX4 card and thats not enough with FS9 running PMDG 737 or A320PIC or learjet 60.
There are more things that affect the performance, special in windows XP en FS9.
The Gauges witch are used can make that there is dramatical dropdown of framerate,
The use of real weather and clouds in FS9 will do so to.
Airplanes design with GMAX  perfom also better.
So there is a list off things that what will affect the frame rate/perfomance.

But if you must buy new,  minimum is 128Mb,  capable directX 9, and high ramdac freq.

Willem.

[EHM-1199 Philip]

Thanks for the information - this is all good and useful for me.

[EHM-0962 Zhen Yi]

a quick note : I recommand getting the FX series instead of the Geforce(number) series, they are a lot better. ATI cards seem to have more incompatibility problems than compared to the nVidia series.

One last note, the more noteworthy difference between pentiums and AMD produced processors seem to be that the AMD ones have more floating points and threads, and thus function better for mathematical calculations, great if you take part in distributed computing such as the one at Grig.org. However, the pentium 4 is great at multitasking, althought when you want to run a single intensive application only, it would perform better with hyper threading switched off

[EHM-0813 Guillermo]

My dad promised me a new computer too, but I haven't heard anything about it in months :'( Anyway, I was going to get a Pentium 4 3,2GHz machine. I wouldn't go for the AMD Athlon 3000+ processor, though. It 'only' has a maximum speed of 2,7GHz. Go for the 3,2GHz instead.

Also, go for LOTS of memory. Standard now is 512MB, but I'd go for 1.024 or even 2.048MB. The more RAM, the better.

Finally, don't get the GeForce if you choose Windows XP as your OS. nVidia cards make your system unstable, even with drivers. I myself would go for the ATi Radeon 9800 128 or 256MB. ATi currently offers the most reliable cards available, so I'd definatly get a Radeon card.

That's about it.. don't forget about a DVD drive, CD-RW drive etc etc be sure to get a hard drive with 10.000rpm or faster, or it'll take ages to copy big files like .mp3, .wmv and installation of software.

[EHM-0962 Zhen Yi]

hmm.......i say skip out on the dvd burner as most burners only support a few dvd formats. i would advise waiting a bit more for better ones to come out. Also a 10,000 rmp harddisk may be too expansive for some and such speed is unnecessary for most applications.

[EHM-0813 Guillermo]

Yep, I would wait for a DVD-RW drive until it has become a market standard. My guesstimate is that it will be in about 2 years from now.

[EHM-0079 Simão]

Well.. i have an AMD XP 2800+ with 512 DDR and an Geforce FX 5200, and i´m plenty sattisfied... Geforce FX 5200 works nice with Directx 9 and XP, and on FS2004 i´m flying at +/- constant 80FPS, with medium-high detail, full ATC, and realistic clouds!! Well and Geforce FX 5200 it´s a really really easy Graphic Card to overclock... from origin the Processor works at 250 mhz and memory at 400... my Geforce FX 5200 it´s now at 300/525 and the improve was great!! Just my testemony!!
(Note: my Geforce FX 5200 it´s an MSI so i don´t talk about other labels)

[EHM-0962 Zhen Yi]

ah MSI.....they churn out great products! i'm planning to get a GeForce FX 5900 from them myself......i would advice not to overclock as it may result in unfortunate destruction of your hardware if not done properly

PS : How's the framerate at full details?

[EHM-0765 Sam]

If it is DDR ram, get 2x512mb Ram, its probably the best format, as it runs quicker from being DDR

[EHM-0962 Zhen Yi]

or you could also hang in there a bit longer and wait for goodies such as DDR2 and PCI Express to come out in large production. That could make the computers a tad bit expensive but it should be well worth the money for the boost in performance

[EHM-1199 Philip]

Thank you all for the advice. AT the moment I am still running FS2002 and the UK VFR scenery. I also install loads of PAI aircraft to get the skys and ATC busy.

PC I bougth this weekend is:
P4 3.2GHz, 512Mb DDR ram, 256Mb Nvidia GEforce 5200 video card, harddrive spins at 7,200rpm. DVD drive with separate DVD burner (+ and -).

I think that's the important aspects of the PC. Crucially though ... I used to get 12-15fps on my old celeron based PC and massive slowdown to almost unplayable 6fps on approach to busy airports like Heathrow. Weather effects on the old PC were impossible unless you like slide shows or only flew very slow aircraft. Now ... whew ... am I satisfied. With all sliders to the right and decent cloud cover and rain etc, I have locked the fps to forty and it hovers around the 40fps consistently. Massive difference and the game is once again coming to life.

Thanks again for all the advice received here.

Phil

[EHM-0962 Zhen Yi]

Cool! with such a high fps i'll be looking towards to building my own computer at the end of this year!

At the DVD burner point, you mean to say that you bought two burners? Your computer must have cost a bomb with those and the 3.2GHz processor!

[EHM-1199 Philip]

Nope ... just one burner but I am assured it will do +veand -ve. Don't even know what that means at the moment having only recently got to grips with burning CDs. The PC cost 999UKP which is I think a fair price for a reasoable spec.

Phil

[Evy]

Indeed AMD seems to loose a bit of its reputation as their performance does not always correspond to reality.

For graphic cards, ATI is one of the best for the moment.

[EHM-0079 Simão]

Originally posted by EHM-0962
PS : How's the framerate at full details?

At full details +/- 20 FPS (London Area, ATC at 100%, all at max) if i choose detailed clouds... simple clouds run up 30 FPS!! But i don´t fly aleays at full, i prefer get better FPS and reduce detail!
Safe landings,

Simão Oliveira
Euroholidays Manager

[EHM-0079 Simão]

Originally posted by Evy
Indeed AMD seems to loose a bit of its reputation as their performance does not always correspond to reality.
For graphic cards, ATI is one of the best for the moment.

Basing my opinion on reviews and personal experience i think that AMD has a really better price/quality relationship,  and since AMD K6-III AMD and Intel are playing very very equal... I prefer AMD and i don´t change but it´s a matter of choise. In graphic cards it´s fact that ATI it´s "knoking down" Nvidia chips... :@ but in terms of overclock ATI is really hard to change, Nvidia is more easy!
Safe landings,

Simão Oliveira
Euroholidays Manager

[EHM-0962 Zhen Yi]

Now that's some performance! i'll be expecting no troubles with my new computer this year end!

[EHM-1123 Dejan]

Well, the basic difference between AMD and Intel chips, is heat management.
AMD T-bred chips and latest Barton chips don;t even need any additional coolers.
Intel instead, should be provided with a Tornado at least.
Also AMD's model number naming, instead of Intel's BUS frequency naming, creates some confusion to new buyers. So people compare AMD +2500 price, with Intel 2.5, which are far different.

As for graphics, ATI and Nvidia have different customer targets in market. So to speak, they don't go into each other's way. ATI targets professionals with requirements in OpenGL, ultra stability, and with no need to overclock:P
Nvidia is more D3D than GL, so gamers all prefer GFX, which is better than ATI when used that way.
I am Intel fan personally, but AMD and ATI user since last winter. And have no complaints.
Cheers

[EHM-0765 Sam]

I get an average of 14-18 on my 1.2ghz, and about 4 at EGLL,im gonna get at least a XP2800

[EHM-0635 Nitzan]

I'm planning to buy this computer...suggestions:
Intel P4 3.0 Ghz
GForce FX5600XT 256MB
HD 120 GB (7200RPM)
sound card with 6 channels onboard
what do you guys think?

[EHM-0962 Zhen Yi]

From what i can see, you should be able to achieve between decent and great performance with FS2004.......should have no problem with lots of ai planes as well as some sceneries....but if you want to have lots of add on sceneries, i suggest you get a better graphics card

[EHM-0588 Paul]

I have frame rates 28-30 with a system less than that.
I think with that system you can set all sliders to the max with no problem.