Landing

[EHM-2101 Tarik]

Hello guys (and girls if we have them)!

I hope you experienced pilots can help me a bit. I'm having troubles with such easy thing as landing. So I'm asking you for some kind of theoritical lesson about landing

I'm flying the European Capitals tours right now with Boeing 737-800. So let's use it for example.

What is good landing speed? When should I set throttle to 0%? How and when should I set the flaps? When is the correct time to set landing gear down? When I have the runway in sight and I have lined up with it what would be correct altitude? What is the correct decending rate? And everything you can tell me. I'd also appreciate some links, etc where I can found some information about perfect landings.

So thank you very very much indeed if you can help me. Because I think I don't have enough assurance for perfect landings. Sometimes my landings are totally OK. But sometimes I fail very badly

So thank you, once again,

Tarik Ahsanullah

PS. This topic is for anykind of talking about landings. Not just for helpin such a novice like me

[EHM-0948 Bruno]

Hi Tarik,

I'm going to try to answer without getting too much inside the pro stuff.

What is good landing speed?
Well it depends on what aircraft are you using. Specifically speaking there is a value on the aircraft specs that gives you a VREF value. That's the value with (normally) full flaps that you should use to land.
The 737-800, with 15% fuel, 50% cargo and full flaps can easily match a 140/135 knots safety landing speed.
Remember that you should also see the decision height (DH) when reaching that specific altitude to decide if you're going to land or not.

When should I set throttle to 0%?
If you are on a precision approach (ILS CAT X engaged) controls your throttle by setting the speed to your speed bug value. So, on your approach you should try to put the speed bug around the 140/135 knots when you are with full flaps. After that, let the airplane control the throttle.
If you are on a non precision approach (VOR, NDB) you should also mantain a clean speed around 160kn until you see and be aligned with the runway before decreasing to 140.

How and when should I set the flaps?
That depends on your approach. On a normal straight approach you should start decreasing your speed after you pass 10000ft. You pass this value around 240kn... then you start decreasing your speed to 180kn and adjust the flaps by leveling your nose on the artifical altitude indicator (HUD) ... if you airplane climbs too much the nose, push the flaps level again! ...

When is the correct time to set landing gear down?
There isnt a special time but don't wait for the last second!
Pull it around 2500ft or bellow, on a 170kn speed to not damage it ... remember that when you pull the landing gear, the airplane, due to air friction, drops the speed a lot so, compensate it with another flap level if possible.

When I have the runway in sight and I have lined up with it what would be correct altitude?
On IFR flights, the "runway in sight" is not too much used nowadays. We can land almost with zero visibility on IFR ... Use the distance to the runway for that.
If you are on ILS mode, then you don't need to worry about that. ILS automatically locks you on an "invisible" downwind ramp right to the runway threshold! Isn't it beautiful what technology can do for us ?

What is the correct decending rate?
Again, let ILS treat this for you. Train your ILS approaches a lot before passing to other approaches.

To end, this is my opinion, but remember that other pilots can do these things on another way ...

Regards and safe flights.

[EHM-1883 Matt]

Bruno got it spot on, however, I'd just like to tell you a story of mine:

My main problem is speed. I can always get my altitude perfect, and I can easily calculate in my head when I should descend and at what rate, but I always end up usually approaching the runway too fast. I remember a flight I did during the alps missions, which unfortunately required the dreaded landing at Courcheval. That was really a test of my skill when it came to speed, and I wasn't too thrilled, because I knew I could get the plane at the right height, but due to the sloping runway, I wasn't sure what speed to go to land in that weird position. I did the flight with Javier, and I think I had about 6 go-arounds, because I just couldn't get the speed right. However, I started to learn after doing all these go-arounds how I should approach it, and I started to notice that my altitude didn't really matter, as the speed counted more trying to land at this airport. I made the plane go very very fast towards the airport, and when I reached the slope, I kind of "dropped" the plane onto the runway (not a big drop, about 10 feet) by a sudden decrease in speed. It worked, and I now use that technique whenever I fly around that airport.

I guess my advice is, it's usually a pain when we have to go-around, especially after a 12 hour flight, but really, go-arounds are the greatest because the more you do of them, the more you learn about how to execute the approach to line you up better, what speed would be appropriate for the runway and plane, and what altitude to be at. Courcheval was a real experience for me, but now I know how to land there without having serious problems, all due to going around many times.

[EHM-1343 Jonathan]

Originally posted by EHM-1883 Matt

I can always get my altitude perfect, and I can easily calculate in my head when I should descend and at what rate.

Nothing like a bit of modesty is there Matt ...



Looking perfect there Mr Haywood!

My main bit of advice would be to reduce your speed early, and try and intercept the Glideslope from below, if you have to intercept from above there is the risk you will gain airspeed, making the approach generally harder!!!

[EHM-1883 Matt]

haha, that was on a bad day:s

corrected from always, to most of the time, most of the time:%

[EHM-2101 Tarik]

Thanks everyone, especially Bruno. I'll practise my landings today with those instructions

[EHM-2097 Andrei]

Hi Tarik,

I'd like to add two more advices.

If you change planes often, you should search the Internet (flight sim ressource sites, I mean) for sim checklists. You can be lucky and find one for exactly "your" version of the plane. These checklists may be perfectible, but give a good "first idea" of the way to fly the plane, including the approach procedure - descent, deceleration etc.

By the other hand, if you fly one single plane trying to achieve perfection (don't we all?), I suggest that after each landing you analyze what you did not like and fine tune your procedure. That's what I recently did myself taking advantage of the same Capitals Tour.

Cheers
Andrei

[EHM-1838 Andrew]

Tarik
Go to this site ........http://www.dauntless-soft.com/PRODUCTS/Freebies/HandlingNotes/simchecklists.asp
There you will find FREE checklists for all the popular Flightsim aircraft,form little Cessnas to mighty Boeings.You can print them out(there only four or five pages or so)they will tell what your correct approach speeds, flap settings etc etc they are for FS aircraft not real world and are very helpful.
cheers Andy

[EHM-2029 Sotiris]

Hi Tarik,

it's a bit off-topic but your avatar picture has an incorrect date. I think it's April 2007 when you joined as opposed to 2006.

It still looks very nice though.

[EHM-1001 Robert]

If you prefer manual flying, I would like to add some more practical numbers:

I used to set OFFLINE approaches, to start at least 7nm from landing point, and around 2000 feet above ground. That is similar what you get from inbuilt ATC.

But lets see a possible approach procedure for the B737

- TOD (top of descent): start descending at around -2000 fpm, and 300 KIAS
- FL150 / 60 nm out: set your speed to 250 KIAS, and decrease descent rate to -1500 fpm. Apply a little speed-brakes if necessary to slow down.
- FL100 / 40 nm out: entering at max 260 KIAS. Decrease speed to 230 KIAS and descend rate to -1000 fpm.
- 5000' / 20 nm out: decrease your speed to 200, and as you reach it, apply Flap 5.
- 3000' / 12 nm out: decrease your speed to 160 KIAS, and apply Flap 15.
- 2000' / 7 nm out: catch ILS, slow down to 140 KIAS, gear out, apply Flaps 30, try descending at -600 fpm.
- 200' / 1 nm out, decide about touchdown...if your plane was too light, slow down to 120 KIAS and apply Full flaps with -500 fpm.
- at treshold: flare
- after touchdown: apply reversers
- at 80 KIAS: close reversers and apply brakes
- slow down and taxi in

That is all

[EHM-2089 Vincent]

HI
Robert's description of speeds and descent fpm really helps. Generally I do most of my descent upto FL100 on -1800fpm.  And as you said, once on FL100, slowing down to 250KIAS requires a bit of brakes so that we have enough distance for the rest of the descent to the runway from FL100.

Flap speed settings should be available in the Manual of the aircraft which you can find with EHM planes or in surclaro.com (can I give the link here)... I have manuals/checklists for the planes from surclaro, usually have a print of them, and then do a landing checklist. Most important on landing are the correct flap setting, speed at around 140 - 145 KIAS max.

The brakes and spoilers should be armed so that you can concentrate on throttle (reversers) on touchdown. Ensure that when you reach threshold, autopilot has to be off, just in case you were doing landing with Autopilot assistance. ITs important. Ensure that all lights of the autopilot except heading may be are off and even auto throttle should be off. Once down, reverse thrust till around 60 KIAS. After that release the automatic brakes set and apply brakes using . so that you can reach the nearest taxiway with ease or let the plane just roll to the next taxiway.

Get off the taxiway as early as you can, but slowly. Don't go on the grass then all will be in trouble.

Happy flying .. Enjoy !!!:P

[EHM-1001 Robert]

Well done mate

To be honest, it was planned that we will make a small operations manual to each of our planes. IT would be much more technical than we have now next to the planes, but not as technical to be boring...instead practical. Some similar descriptions like we discussed here

The only problem is the time, as alway, because it does not have high priority now.